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Abortion, Civil Rights, Healthcare and other Social Issues Abortion, Civil Rights, Homosexuality, Education, Healthcare and other such issues

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2008
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
si modo , since you and I work I think with some and in the same environment at times, as to- elements, compounds, chemicals etc. or close to it, we both know that there are a huge number of such loaded with many 'traps' for dyslexics, a spelling of a chemical compound with say an average of 12 letters, with multiple ch's,sh's, y’s, x's, z' can, I think confuse a dyslexic.

there for my concern is; if they cannot master a multiple choice, how can they master their craft as to prescriptions, test results , operating procedures calling for review of such?
There is a broad range of how dyslexia can affect a student or a professional. You have a good point and something many chemists discuss, even among the faculty (but that is behind closed doors). I did have an excellent student who told me he was dyslexic. He chose to not request accomodations for exams. And, I never would have known he was dyslexic had he not mentioned it.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
There is a broad range of how dyslexia can affect a student or a professional. You have a good point and something many chemists discuss, even among the faculty (but that is behind closed doors). I did have an excellent student who told me he was dyslexic. He chose to not request accomodations for exams. And, I never would have known he was dyslexic had he not mentioned it.
I understand......
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
si modo , since you and I work I think with some and in the same environment at times, as to- elements, compounds, chemicals etc. or close to it, we both know that there are a huge number of such loaded with many 'traps' for dyslexics, a spelling of a chemical compound with say an average of 12 letters, with multiple ch's,sh's, y’s, x's, z' can, I think confuse a dyslexic.

there for my concern is; if they cannot master a multiple choice, how can they master their craft as to prescriptions, test results , operating procedures calling for review of such?
Except, most physicians work from a fairly limited list of drugs which they prescribe, and they tend to have short brand names that are easily pronounced.

They don't generally work at the chemical name level, unless they're pharmacologists.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by Hafke View Post
Oh, dear god. At first I thought this was a "political correctness gone mad" story beloved of papers like the Daily Mail, but it's in the reputeable papers as well:

A medical student in Britain is suing the General Medical Council for discrimination because, as a dyslexic, she finds some of the tests she needs to pass to qualify as a doctor difficult.

I don't want to be treated by a dyslexic doctor | Stephen Pollard - Times Online

Full Coverage: Dyslexia student's legal bid

I can't be the only one who thinks that difficult tests don't discriminate, they weed out. Also, while I know some extremely intelligent dyslexics, I wouldn't want them treating me.

As a white Sicilian male I wish AA worked for me and not against me?

I guess I'm the white evil devil, I got 100 bucks that says if I was another joe on welfare with 195 kids with no ethical or moral background there would be some liberal to sponsor my insanity on the basis that I'm brown.....no, no and no... I break my ass off working and I have my own politics and thats dangerous to the progressive system.


Now I would love some liberals try to tell me my poor ass i'm super wrong.

As a matter of fact, people think I'm a Mexican ans assume I dont speak english and that is about as nasty as racism. Yea, they pretty much shit their pants when I'm like 'what?' and then go on to speak perfect proper english...It's all good tho because I get blow jobs from liberal females for the injustice...Imagine that, guilty blow jobs....

Sorry I have to be blunt and fantastic.
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Last edited by Swoop187; 08-03-2008 at 07:56 AM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
I remember when we were taking our college entrance exams (SAT test) that there were any number of kids in my area (a wealthy one) that had their parents shell out a lot of money for the "Princeton Review" which was a course that taught students how to take the SAT test. I had neither the money nor the interest to take it myself, but some of my friends did and shared their "learning" with me. If you can eliminate two of the four answers guessing makes sense, go through and do the easy ones first, do the math problems by plugging the answers into the original equation and see which one works, and any other number of common sense inanities. That was enough of an interesting advantage that could be had to prevent the playing field from being leveled across economic strata.

There was also the interesting phenomenon of those with LD's being able to take the test un-timed. First off, I think there is a portion of the population that has learning disabilities, and that there are probably some sorts of accommodations that can be made. However, in rich areas the number of kids with learning disabilities magically increases. I'm not sure whether this is because there are a lot of kids that want to be perscribed legal speed that they can snort before going to parties, because there are a lot of angry, rich parents demanding an explanation other than "you're kid's just not very bright", because learning disabilities confer an automatic advantage in our equality obsessed society, or some combination of these factors. But, there it is. All sorts of kids got to swallow concentration pills, sit in rooms by themselves, and not worry about timing. That was 10 years ago - hell, maybe they just give them one out of every three answers now. Though I was and am ambivalent about that occurring, I recall thinking that it was unfair and absurd (though, I was in no position to complain as a night of heavy drinking before the test had been my own potential adjustment of test results )

But, I've thought about something recently. In the US, there is an enormous flap these days about athletes and performance enhancing drugs. Not only is it illegal (and apparently immoral), but it tarnishes the very nature of the game - it's unfair. In a competitive environment, they are taking drugs to gain an edge. And yet, nobody seems to think anything of loading their children up on prozac and adderall (basically, prescription cocaine), fudging a doctor's visit or bribing said doctor in order to secure un-timed test results, or generally securing any other unfair competitive advantage for said children. Of course, I don't much care, but these same children are probably later lectured on the immorality of steroid use, if they are athletes.

As the Onion has coined it in a new section - only in "Our Dumb World".
ADHD and LD are two different things that often overlap. Students with ADHD may or may not benefit from medication. LD students do not benefit from medication and a doctor would not label a kid LD, a school pscyhologist would. Black kids tend to be overidentified as LD. LD is a descrpency between IQ and performance. So these kids are smart, they may just learn differently or need more time on a test. Of course with NCLB, this definition is changing to anyone who can' pass the standardised test is LD and needs accomadations such as someone reading the test for them, scribe, calculator, or untimed, small room setting, or taking the test alone. More kids are now LD than ever before, because schools need the kids to pass the test so they can get funding.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger View Post
Well you should get at least 25% on a multipul choice exam-I got 55% putting just C's down once. But anyways, I actually find them extreamly difficult-its hard to explain why but its sort of not being able to tell which box is which-I have to spend an extra 30 seconds on each question just working out whats what.
It sounds like you may have some form of ADHD or dyslexia. Some Children with this disorder have a hard time tranferring. If you were still in school you could get an accomodation where someone else would fill out the bubble sheet for you.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008
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Otter Otter is offline
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by Hafke View Post
That was my point. If the test is useful in determining who should qualify as a doctor, then everyone should have to pass. If it isn't, then no one should, whether or not they're dyslexic. If peeing your name in the snow (gotta ask, how'd you come up with that example?) has little to do with medicine, then it's not a valid test, for anyone.

As the journalist from the Times said in the OP, a doctor who would have difficulty distinguishing between 81mg and 18mg is a liability.

The point of issue is whether multiple choice tests are an accurate way to assess whether a student has mastered the material (and thus in this case should qualify as a doctor). Really they are not the best way to assess that; they can range from reasonably good to very poor, depending on how they're written, but a combination of short essay and fill in the blank would nearly always yield more accurate results. They take much longer to grade, though, and with the exception of anatomy and a very few other classes (parts of tox, pharm, and surgery) all our exams are multiple choice; including the national boards (for vet school, I believe med school boards are, too, though) I happen to be good at multiple-guess, and what that meant in practical terms is that I didn't study as hard as I did when I knew the exam would be short answer. Many of the questions were so poorly written that if you are skilled at taking multiple choice tests, you didn't need as much knowledge of the material, but if you had difficulty with them, then your knowledge level wouldn't be apparent. So, no; I think they are popular not because they are a good assesment tool, but because they can be graded by machine. Medical training would in fact benefit from moving to a more open ended format, but they'd have to hire a bunch of TA's to do it.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2008
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89whiteandnerdy 89whiteandnerdy is offline
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

I love lexdyxic people...

IMO a standard is a standard. If you can't pass a test because of a condition, then you shouldn't be able to practice medicine because of that condition. Duh...
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2008
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by 89whiteandnerdy View Post
I love lexdyxic people...

IMO a standard is a standard. If you can't pass a test because of a condition, then you shouldn't be able to practice medicine because of that condition. Duh...
This is true only if the test accurately predicts your ability to practice medicine, which in the case of multiple choice exams is doubtful, at best. I've never seen a patient come in with a list of differentials labled a through e attached.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2008
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WharfedaleTiger WharfedaleTiger is offline
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Re: Woman sues because test is too difficult.

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Originally Posted by cns3e View Post
It sounds like you may have some form of ADHD or dyslexia. Some Children with this disorder have a hard time tranferring. If you were still in school you could get an accomodation where someone else would fill out the bubble sheet for you.
I don't think its ADHD mate-I never have any problem concentrating on these things or on anything else (though I always had a problem with maths-but that was because I found it boring, rarther than becuase I couldn't do it) my main problem is that I just had to spend extra time making sure I filled these things out right.

I'll give you an easier to explain example-homophones: I could tell you exactly the diffrence between there and their if you asked me, but ask me to use them correctly in a sentence without concentrating and I struggle-to get them right 100% I have to stop everytime I use one of them and think about which one it should be. Same with Knight/Night and so forth. Ask me the question straight and I could tell you the correct answer-ask me to write it...

Does that allegory help at all-its a similar suggestion. The lass in here isn't complaining about the knowlage she needs-she has that-shes questioning how useful Multipul choice tests are and dosn't believe that they are key to practicing medicane. Is getting their/there right 100% key in an Eng Lit exam?

(apologies for any incoherence in this post-I've just got back from the US, havn't slept for 34 hrs and I've got my exam results tomorrow, I'm not in my best state right now, I hope you got my basic point...it made sense to me anyways.)
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