Donora woman's child torture stories get her house arrest - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

So, if "acting on" a certain written material would result in illegal and greatly harmful actions, said material should be banned and the writer thereof should be punished? Well, shit, I guess we better ban every movie that contains violence, rape, murder, etc...

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For me, this is a tough call.

While the expression of such ideas can be protected, certainly pornography and indecency laws need to be taken into consideration, as well.

I've always been taught that the 1st Amendment is there, in reality, to protect unpopular speech. After all, popular speech, being popular, really doesn't need to be protected, because nobody would really be attacking it.

You raise an interesting point about films, too.

Not an easy call, and something which could probably be reviewed by an Appelate Court...

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Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Doesn't this kind of fall under the virtual pornography thing? If it can't be proved real children were used as a basis for writing the stories, is this illegal?

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No, not really.

With literature/writing, can you

A. think of a way that it could be proven that real children were used
B. apply the standards of the USC ruling if there are no images?

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It's the only stretch I can make to equate her stories to illegal forms of child pornography. If her writings are fictional, it's a pure free speech case, and she has been sentenced to five years probation for posting stories on the internet. That doesn't seem right.

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An appeal should take of this, and put a black mark on the judge's record.

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Precisely.So you don't have a decision on this matter? When you say that indecency laws need to be taken into consideration, what exactly do you mean? Obviously, they are taken into consideration already since that is what this is about (that and free speech, which is directly related), am I right?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

I don't think this is a child porn issue, but rather an indecency issue. You make a good point though: no victim, no crime.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

How could real children have been used?

But, leaving only the fictional victims as the helpless ones frees me.

Looks like she wrote fiction. I doubt she actually kidnapped and tortured real kids to get inspiration.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Indecency... another Judge legislating from the bench. My own distaste for the stuff has no legal basis, I just don't like it. But under her ruling, absolutely anything could be indecent and therefore punishable. This needs to be turned over quickly.

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This case should be appealed and the judge removed from office. This places a real chill over Free Speech in this country, and even the use of a recognized and productive form of psychological therapy. Unfortunately, it doesn't involve our ability to easily kill many others from a distance so it will probably be largely ignored.

I think I'd have to agree with ArmyFerret on this one.

While the text of what's written may be, to some, deplorable and disgusting, I'd have to question whether or not it's illegal.

Now, if she got her ideas after partaking in such activities, well, I think that would be different...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Agreed. This is just another bullshit decision to try and apply pressure on the unpopular minority. Technically, there isn't even any reason to despise this woman. At least, no more reason than there is to despise people like Mario Puzo (for The Godfather) or Wes Craven (for The Last House on the Left).

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

If she got her ideas from personally kidnapping and torturing children, then her writings would largely be non-issues (relatively speaking).

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

I'm trying to dig up some stuff... Features - Constitutional, Federal and State Legal Definitions of Child Pornography, Obscenity and "Harmful to Minors" of Interest to California Libraries | LLRX.com

Federal law does not ban obscenity outright; it leaves this to state law. Federal statutes prohibit, among other things, the transmission of obscene matter as defined by state law, in interstate commerce (e.g. the Internet)

The Constitutional definition of Obscenity was further narrowed by the Supreme Court in Brockett v. Spokane Arcades, 472 U.S. 491, 498 (1985) which endorsed the Model Penal Code of obscenity -- "material whose predominant appeal is to a shameful or morbid interest in nudity, sex, or excretion" and not "materials that provoked only normal sexual reactions." ... materials that have been judged obscene -- by a judge or a jury-- there are several common elements: explicit showing of excretion, bestiality, necrophilia, incest, or any type of non-consensual sex.

... so it's up to the state, and there's nothing specific about the type of media other than it is found to be obscene.

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