Thread: Discrimination against men with long hair at work

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

Damn, is that the case in OZ? Thats certainly not how it is in the US, nor Asia ... there is a surfeit of talent, especially in my field and where I'm at ...

Of course, a MBA/higher degree would put one in the "desired" category for which, despite the growing number of MBA's, there still is and likely will be a demand for a while, but then we come back to the whole long hair thing ... And actually getting a job with long hair after going back to school ...



Agree. Well, unfortunately inthat case, I suspect the guy would never end up being a fit for most of the client groups ...

Unfortunately, it seems the higher up one goes (and I'm not referring purely to IT administration), and the more one interacts with customers, the more conservative one has to be, due to the way in which society views non-conservative men. Which is precisely what I'm debating - WHY is it this way?

Not one poster amongst those that disagree with me on this issue (and I'm not referring to you since you've provided your reasons) has said why they believe men with long hair couldn't do a job equally well, or why exactly that man would not be a "fit" for company culture, or, and most importantly - WHY do they feel the way they do?

Why does our society want men to be ultra conservative? This standard doesn't apply to women, so why men?

quick answer - there is a belief that there is only one 'professional' style for men - but this is constantly being challenged. What is acceptable now at middle management was not acceptable in the relatively recent past. As style diversity among men becomes more 'mainstream' you will see more long haired senior administrators etc in firms outside the welfare/education/marketing sector.

Conservative conformism in dress and style for males is really a hangover from an earlier period ...

you will find oganisations that adopt more flexible/open approaches as they see clients leave them because they don't 'relate' to the company image ...

Be patient, grasshopper.

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

Define the higher standard ...

Use you imagination...

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

It isn't that I am having difficulty with anything. How does having long hair hurt a company's image, or PR? You still havent advised your opinion.

I certainly have. It hurts the company in whatever way the owner of the company thinks it does. And that's all that matters.

Here's one example: If I see someone with short hair, my initial impression is that they're probably lean towards being conservative; that's not unusual. I don't mean that in political terms, but in business terms. An employer may want his company to convey a conservative image to his clients.

Now, jumping to the conclusion that someone's conservative because they have short hair certainly may not be the best thing to do, but it happens. It's part of the "first impression". When meeting a client for the first time, image and presentation is everything...

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

WHY is it this way?

It doesn't matter why it's that way, it is...

Not one poster amongst those that disagree with me on this issue (and I'm not referring to you since you've provided your reasons) has said why they believe men with long hair couldn't do a job equally well

Of course we haven't, because that's not what you asked.

I'll say this: If someone is continually not getting jobs, that person needs to look at why that is. If his skills are superlative, then how he presents himself is probably an issue.

If someone doesn't get a job, he should ask the employer why he didn't get it; that wouldn't be unusual. If he's told he didn't get the job because he has long hair, he should really consider getting a haircut...

Originally Posted by daisym

quick answer - there is a belief that there is only one 'professional' style for men - but this is constantly being challenged. What is acceptable now at middle management was not acceptable in the relatively recent past. As style diversity among men becomes more 'mainstream' you will see more long haired senior administrators etc in firms outside the welfare/education/marketing sector.

Hopefully so, Daisy. I have seen some evidence of this, but not a lot.

Originally Posted by daisym

Be patient, grasshopper.

LOL! I like the way you say that ...

Originally Posted by Steve

Now, jumping to the conclusion that someone's conservative because they have short hair certainly may not be the best thing to do, but it happens. It's part of the "first impression". When meeting a client for the first time, image and presentation is everything...

So, you agree that jumping to such conclusions on the basis of hairstyles is stupid?

Yes, yes, yes, it happens - but I'm asking, do you think it's stupid or not?

Originally Posted by pramjockey

If you even see them.

My tats and piercings (when I had piercings) are easily covered by a suit. There's no way to know I'm decorated.

If Ibeleived in your form of God, I would say, "GOD KNOWS" However to me the word is not decorated, but degraded.

My HONEST opinion.

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

It doesn't matter to you, perhaps, but it matters to some. If it doesn't matter to you though, why are you posting in this thread?

It matters to me that there are people out there who are stupid enough to believe that it doesn't matter...

[QUOTE=daisym;972682]






in theory, I get your point ... so that would mean also that if you don't like black/chinese/female/fat/old/young working with you - thats just discernment or personal taste, not discrimination ... and nobody has the right to challenge you?




I disagree with you here. I don't think tatts or piercings reflect a lack of integrity any more than poor colour coordination, tight clothes or wearing high heels.... savagely plucked eyebrows or serious depilation. Its a matter of taste, sometimes people suffer for the sake of style ... but thats a choice they make.

QUOTE] I'm just going to answer the two above portions becuse in other ways, O agree with you. However:

1. I don't think Racism was his intent at all

and

2. I never said I think tatts, etc reflect a lack of integrety. Rather it reflects my opinion of the rational of the person wearing them. I simply think that altering your body in such ways is a lack of respect for yourself, certainly nothing to be lauded. I feel the same way about Breast agmentation, and extreme Musclebuilding. Repair of abnormal defects is quite another thing however. (yeh, I know--- the eye of the beholder)

Originally Posted by Pi Jiu

So, you agree that jumping to such conclusions on the basis of hairstyles is stupid?

Yes, yes, yes, it happens - but I'm asking, do you think it's stupid or not?

It's only stupid if the conclusion is inaccurate.

But, stupid or not, it is what it is: People judge us by how we present ourselves. If you have a problem with that,, and vow not to conform, then you should probably come to grips with the fact that your professional future won't pan out the way you've hoped...

Originally Posted by Steve

I gotta' be honest. I've never seen anyone who will try to make an issue out of something that's so absolutely stupid.

If someone feels they're not getting promoted from the deep-fat fryer because they have long hair, they should get a fuckin' haircut.

A private employer has the right to not hire someone if he believes that person's appearance will not represent his company the way he'd like it represented.

It's not bias, and it's not discrimination. It's business...

Yes. But, what if the employer fails to enact similar mandates on women with long hair?

That is the issue.

Originally Posted by doniston

Right or wrong, I think it is a matter of an impression that a man with long hair is somehow girlish, just as wearing a kilt, or the dress uniform of the Turks.

personally I think kids with long hair is fine regardless of gender As for men. I tend to think of them as non-conformists. Such as bearded men.

BTW I have a beard.

Doniston, made me think: what about women with beards? Ive seen them. and it is socially unacceptable to even acknowledge a woman has a beard.

Originally Posted by Beer

Yes. But, what if the employer fails to enact similar mandates on women with long hair?

That is the issue.

And it's not truly an issue at all.

Most women shave their armpits and legs. Should an employer, because he prefers women who work for him to shave their legs and armpits, insist on the same from the men?