I like the ring of President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho.

Considering that the people you equated me to are the same ones that have signs that say, "Thank God for IEDs" and are happy when soldiers die while at the same time I'm wearing the uniform I have full right to find your post dispicable.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

you're missing the point entirely, joel.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

And there goes the point waaaaaaaaaaaaay overhead.....

Oh, I get the point. He is trying to minimalize me by comparing me to an exremist group. Sorry, I'm just not going to bite.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

no that's not the point at all.

.

edit: i mean i don't claim to be reading speak's mind or anything but that's what i got from it at least.

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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine

Are you denying that you think Churches that allow homosexuals to practice within them aren't real Christians? Are you denying that Fred Phelps holds this same point of view?

In no way to I remotely think that you're similar to Fred Phelps at all. I'm sure you find him just as repulsive and terrible as everyone else. My intention wasn't to equate the two of you, it was to show that you hold a position that is similar to someone you most likely think of an insane, hateful, spiteful waste of space human being. If I were to find out that I held a similar position as Fred Phelps, I would seriously review that position.

The problem is, ideas such as being the judge of who is a 'real Christian' and who isn't leads to division, leads to bigotry and leads to hate. Fred Phelps is already in the business of judging who is a 'real' and who is a 'fake' Christian and look how well that's working out for him.

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“If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.” - Carl Sagan

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If prayer doesn't work, an exorcism would be the next step:



Bizarre Gay Exorcism: Church Casts “Homosexual Demons” from Boy (VIDEO)

“Rip it from his throat! Come on, you homosexual demon! You homosexual spirit, we call you out right now! Loose your grip, Lucifer!” - one woman can be heard yelling.

I know what you were getting at but it really doesn't have much relavence to the discussion besides minimalizing me. He is an extremist Christian (if he is one). Being a particular sect of christian he will, of course have a few beliefs that are similar to mine. It speaks nothing to the point that I believe there are some christains who say they are but, in reality, aren't. I can't judge each person on whether they are or aren't. I can only make some guesses. I believe there are homosexuals that are true christians. That's not the complete point. The position of homosexuality in the bible is pretty clear. If a group of christians are going to divorce themselves that much from the teachings of christianity you are legitimately able to wonder about the validity of their belief. I then quoted some versus that said this very thing. Whether that applies to them or not remains to be seen. The point being that the bible, itself, says there are people who say they are christians but aren't.

-edit- Many christians make the mistake of taking "pet sins" and focusing on them to the point where it becomes a palpable hate. This is what causes a lot of the negative steriotypes of christians today. I think homosexuality is wrong but I don't hate gays. I've even wrestled with a guy that was gay and didn't care. You can't really get any less homophob than that.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

Is it necessary to follow the letter of the Bible, in its entirety, to be a Christian? Do some of its teachings trump others?

(I'm just curious as to your opinion on this)

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Joel:

Regardless of how broadly or narrowly you define the word Christian, or who you consider a Christian and who not, do you agree with the OP that Christians are persecuted in this country, or that there is a "war" being waged against Christians?

If so, I would ask you to explain what you mean by "persecution" and "war." It is, or should be, self-evident that these beliefs are untrue according to the usual meanings of the words. That is, Christians in the U.S. are not being jailed or executed or tortured for their beliefs, churches are not being burned or forcibly closed, Christians are not being discriminated against in terms of hiring or housing, voting rights for Christians are not being restricted.

So in what sense are Christians being persecuted? Or if you don't agree with the OP on this, please make that clear.

Negative. There are only a very few things I believe is necessary to believe in to be a true christian. This is not one of them. I just think it's an indicator. Kinda like maybe if your check engine light comes on doesn't mean your engine is going to explode. It could be something as simple as you needing to get your oil changed. Or, then again, it could explode. There is something wrong there though, regardless.

You also have to be very careful when trying to apply old testament teachings to christianity. I don't know if your getting to that point or not.

Like I said, I believe there are homosexuals here that are true chritians but are not following the teachings. I do sins every day. The flesh is weak.

I don't know if my analogy helped at all, but there it is.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

Thanks for the explanation. I was using a harsher way of making my point and I apologize if you were offended. I was merely trying to show that judging who is 'real' and who is 'not' is often a tactic used by people that we both agree are scum. Besides, I understand that a big part of Christianity is that God is the judge and the whole 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' and all that.

I also find it unusual that there are other biblical sins that take place in this country on a much wider and more frequent scale, but they never receive the scorn from some Christians as homosexuals do. Divorcees, premarital sex, thieves, adulterers, inter religious marriage, etc. Why the extremely heavy focus on one particular group that doesn't really cause much harm and is a rather small segment of the population? Of course, I'm not aiming this at you, because you don't seem to fit into the group that is doing the persecuting, I'm just presenting my own confusion on the whole thing.

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“If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.” - Carl Sagan

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I'm not sure why there are "pet sins" out there. I mean...if you look at Jesus' life he constantly went out of his way to treat sinners with grace and forgiveness. He didn't pick his disciples from the religious elite of the day. In fact, those were the ones he used his strongest language against. I have some thoughts on it that I will have to take more time to organize into something coherent and see if I can come up with something that makes sense.

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A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw

It makes me very happy to see the Xtian RW paranoid ramblings online. They must be the most fearful freaks in the world. I can only hope that someone some way makes it come true for them.