Thread: After birth abortion

Originally Posted by LJ2

You: "Plus, it's a real motherfucker having to watch some poor unwanted baby who's been shaken die from its injuries. Better that the woman get the abortion than a dozen of us have to go through that."

After birth abortion

:rolleyes:

I've worked to save lives. For you to say that I regret it when people aren't killed is beyond insulting.

Too bad I can't say what I'd like to.

Originally Posted by LJ2

First of all, most babies who've suffered shaken baby syndrome are not the victims of their mothers. Usually someone else does it. Mommy didn't want the child dead before or after birth.

That someone is murdered at one age does not mean that it would have been better if they had been murdered at an earlier age.

Would you say if the mothers would have aborted their babies, those answering medical emergencies would never lay eyes on the burned or decapitated victims of terrorism?

Would you say if the mothers would have aborted their babies, those answering medical emergencies would never lay eyes on the body parts of plane crash victims?

Probably not to both. Such self-focused reaction is reserved for children. That's how abortion has corrupted our sense of compassion. If a child is killed early in life after birth, we think she should have been aborted to:
- relieve our discomfort of seeing the murder victim. We lose track of who really suffered here. It's not the medical staff, it's the child.
- keep the murder unseen. Observe how pjockey is disturbed by what he has seen, but is a defender of similar violence when unseen in the womb.

Because the "violence" in the womb takes a "victim" that does not have the capacity for thought or self awareness. It is not the taking of a consciousness, which I would consider to be a crime. I know that you believe that something magical happens when a sperm joins an egg. I don't. I've got science to back me. You've got only your beliefs. Your beliefs are important to you, but cannot and should not affect me.

Originally Posted by LJ2

First of all, most babies who've suffered shaken baby syndrome are not the victims of their mothers. Usually someone else does it. Mommy didn't want the child dead before or after birth.

That someone is murdered at one age does not mean that it would have been better if they had been murdered at an earlier age.

Would you say if the mothers would have aborted their babies, those answering medical emergencies would never lay eyes on the burned or decapitated victims of terrorism?

Would you say if the mothers would have aborted their babies, those answering medical emergencies would never lay eyes on the body parts of plane crash victims?

Probably not to both. Such self-focused reaction is reserved for children. That's how abortion has corrupted our sense of compassion. If a child is killed early in life after birth, we think she should have been aborted to:
- relieve our discomfort of seeing the murder victim. We lose track of who really suffered here. It's not the medical staff, it's the child.
- keep the murder unseen. Observe how pjockey is disturbed by what he has seen, but is a defender of similar violence when unseen in the womb.

I just think that you're trying to make Pram sound more callous than he really is. I agree that it's often, but not always, someone other than the mother who kills a baby but as much as I hate abortions, I'd rather a mother abort it early than kill it after giving birth.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

I just think that you're trying to make Pram sound more callous than he really is. I agree that it's often, but not always, someone other than the mother who kills a baby but as much as I hate abortions, I'd rather a mother abort it early than kill it after giving birth.

I'm not callous - I'm a bleeding heart lib!


I'd also remind LJ2 that I've said repeatedly that it would be my preference that abortion go away. We have the same goal, just different reasons and methods that we would use.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

I'm not callous - I'm a bleeding heart lib!


I'd also remind LJ2 that I've said repeatedly that it would be my preference that abortion go away. We have the same goal, just different reasons and methods that we would use.

Your goal is to keep live human dismemberment, decapitation and disembowlement legal. Mine is to ban it.

Originally Posted by LJ2

Your goal is to keep live human dismemberment, decapitation and disembowlement legal. Mine is to ban it.

So what are you doing about it?

Anonymously posting on an internet forum?

Originally Posted by LJ2

Your goal is to keep live human dismemberment, decapitation and disembowlement legal. Mine is to ban it.

As much as I'm against abortion, banning it isn't the answer. Education is.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Because the "violence" in the womb takes a "victim" that does not have the capacity for thought or self awareness. It is not the taking of a consciousness, which I would consider to be a crime. I know that you believe that something magical happens when a sperm joins an egg. I don't. I've got science to back me. You've got only your beliefs. Your beliefs are important to you, but cannot and should not affect me.

I hope you don't take care of comatose patients.

By your measure, you undermine the basis for Death Roe. A woman's 'right to choose' is not limited by any measure of fetal awareness or consciousness.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

As much as I'm against abortion, banning it isn't the answer. Education is.

As much as I'm against live dismemberment of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.
As much as I'm against live disembowlement of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.
As much as I'm against live decapitation of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.

Suppose someone said, "As much as I'm against rape, banning it isn't the answer. Education is."

Originally Posted by LJ2

As much as I'm against live dismemberment of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.
As much as I'm against live disembowlement of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.
As much as I'm against live decapitation of little human beings, banning it isn't the answer.

Suppose someone said, "As much as I'm against rape, banning it isn't the answer. Education is."

Abortion has not always been legal and when it wasn't, women died because they were going to illegal 'clinics' to have them which proves that making them illegal won't stop them from being done. The best way to prevent abortions is to educate women on preventing the unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

And to answer your question, rape IS illegal and it still happens so obviously banning something doesn't make it go away.

Originally Posted by LJ2

Your goal is to keep live human dismemberment, decapitation and disembowlement legal. Mine is to ban it.

I've tried to have a civil conversation with you. I'm sorry that you're not capable of making that same effort.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

:rolleyes:

I've worked to save lives. For you to say that I regret it when people aren't killed is beyond insulting.

Too bad I can't say what I'd like to.

You said that you would prefer in cases where babies died from shaken baby syndrome that the mother had just had an abortion. Whether that amounts to "regret" or not is debatable, but it's close. I don't think his reasonable interpretation of your own statement is any cause for offense.

:: shrug ::

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

Abortion has not always been legal and when it wasn't, women died because they were going to illegal 'clinics' to have them which proves that making them illegal won't stop them from being done. The best way to prevent abortions is to educate women on preventing the unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

And to answer your question, rape IS illegal and it still happens so obviously banning something doesn't make it go away.

Do you agree then that rape should not be banned?

I mean, people are going to break laws ... even the one against murder. That doesn't necessarily strike me as a reason not to have them.

BTW, women still die in abortion.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

I've tried to have a civil conversation with you. I'm sorry that you're not capable of making that same effort.

Not from what I saw. I saw a lot of declarations of "Bullshit!", insinuations that he was lying and demeaning his position as belief in magic. Quite ironic given that you claim science is on your side.

Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor

Do you agree then that rape should not be banned?

I mean, people are going to break laws ... even the one against murder. That doesn't necessarily strike me as a reason not to have them.

BTW, women still die in abortion.

Of course I think rape should remain illegal! However, a lot of pro-life people wrongfully think that outlawing abortions will make them go away and that simply isn't true. They'll still happen but there'll be far more women that die trying to get them illegally. Rather than trying to win the war we should be trying to win the battle and we do that by educating women. Without the education, we'll still have unwanted pregnancies, abortions and babies born with no one to care and love them so the simple solution is to treat the cause, not the effect.