Thread: After birth abortion

Originally Posted by LJ2

Mrs. M. you call for education yet know so little about the history of abortion. In the years preceeding Death Roe very few women died of abortion, legal or illegal.

It's a myth that thousand and thousands of mothers died from abortion every before Death Roe. Dr. Barnard Nathanson was one of the founders of NARAL. He has written about how they fed a complicit media make believe numbers and the abortion minded journalists simply spread the lies.

The Center for Disease counted maternal abortion deaths. In 1972, the year before Death Roe, they found "24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions.
Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2000

Before Death Roe the people of each state had the right to make their own laws regarding abortion. Some states, like Nathanson's abortion loving NY, was an abortion Mecca.

Banning or severly limiting abortion saves many lives. In 1974, the first full year following Death Roe, US abortions were about 900,000. In a few years it was up to 1,500,000. Making it legal made it acceptable. Abortion clinics advertised to induce women to abort their children. And employeers, family and fathers of the baby now all could attempt to coerce the mother into aborting. I've cited many, many examples.

The education that you advocate must start with you. You should stop spreading the myth that if Death Roe was overturnd many women would die. Abortion would likely remain legal in most states, but with restrictions. And the advancement in medicine, especially in modern antibiotics, protects all mothers from abortion deaths.

And you're so willing to believe anything that you feel supports your cause. Abortion was taboo so there is absolutely no way to know exactly how many women died from it. I'd bet every penny I have that many deaths weren't reported as complications from abortion because of the stigma and a person would have to be totally ignorant to believe otherwise.
Tell me which is better...we could outlaw abortions and have thousands of babies born every year to crack-addicted mothers, babies born and left to die because they were unwanted, babies born and placed in already overcrowded orphanages and have women die during home abortions or we could focus on pregnancy prevention through education. As I said before, we're not likely to ever see Roe v. Wade overturned so we need to take a different avenue.

Originally Posted by LJ2

and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions

The wild card is the number of deaths caused by unknown illegal abortions...

If any of you got a better number from a more authoritive source, post it. Women's intuition doesn't count.

I gave you the Center for Disease Control.

I also gave you the founder of NARAL, an man who owned the largest abortion clinic in America. He said that they inflated the numbers of maternal deaths. "How many...? In NARAL...it was always 5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year. I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the morality of our revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics? The overriding concern was to ge the laws eliminated, and anything within reason that had to be done was permissable."
Bernard Nathanson, M.D. Aborting America (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1979), page 193

This doctor, who also taught at New York Medical College and at Vanderbilt University, has explained that "the lowering of maternal mortality has been due largely, if not enitrely, to (medical) advances..." of anesthesia, antibiotics, ultrasound, lab technology, understanding of infectious disease, transfusion techniques and standardized training in nurses, medical students and resident physicians.

Originally Posted by Mrs. M

And you're so willing to believe anything that you feel supports your cause. Abortion was taboo so there is absolutely no way to know exactly how many women died from it. I'd bet every penny I have that many deaths weren't reported as complications from abortion because of the stigma and a person would have to be totally ignorant to believe otherwise.
Tell me which is better...we could outlaw abortions and have thousands of babies born every year to crack-addicted mothers, babies born and left to die because they were unwanted, babies born and placed in already overcrowded orphanages and have women die during home abortions or we could focus on pregnancy prevention through education. As I said before, we're not likely to ever see Roe v. Wade overturned so we need to take a different avenue.

It's better not to kill anyone, even if their mother hates them.

51 million abortions since Death Roe. How many of those were in the situations you describe and why are you so anxious for their death?

Originally Posted by Steve

The wild card is the number of deaths caused by unknown illegal abortions...

The Center for Disease counted maternal abortion deaths. In 1972, the year before Death Roe, they found "24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

"Known" illegal abortions. How many deaths were called something else? Sepsis. Uterine rupture. etc.



Really? Can you show us some examples of these advertisements?

From the CDC:
An abortion-related death was defined as a death resulting from 1) a direct complication of an abortion, 2) an indirect complication caused by the chain of events initiated by abortion, or 3) aggravation of a preexisting condition by the physiologic or psychologic effects of the abortion (1,2). Sources of data for abortion-related deaths included national and state vital records, maternal mortality review committees, surveys, private citizens and groups, media reports, health-care providers, medical examiners' reports, and computerized searches of full-text newspaper databases. All deaths associated with any type of abortion, induced or spontaneous, were investigated. For each death possibly related to an induced abortion or an abortion of unknown type, clinical records and autopsy reports were requested and reviewed by two clinically experienced medical epidemiologists to determine the cause of death and whether the death was abortion related. Each abortion-related death was then categorized as legal induced, illegal induced, spontaneous, or unknown (whether induced or spontaneous).

If you've got a better number, tell me where it's from and the research methods they used to find it. I did that for you.

Here's an organization telling pregnant girls that we'll give you an abortion and won't even tell your mom and dad. These people are sick.


They should have added, "And if you were raped by an adult, we won't tell the police."

Originally Posted by LJ2

The Center for Disease counted maternal abortion deaths. In 1972, the year before Death Roe, they found "24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions.

Right.

What about UNKNOWN illegal abortions?

Do you think it's possible any women died during those?

Or do you think that, if the CDC doesn't address it, it doesn't exist?

Originally Posted by Steve

Right.

What about UNKNOWN illegal abortions?

Do you think it's possible any women died during those?

Or do you think that, if the CDC doesn't address it, it doesn't exist?

Sure there were probably some missed. But there may have been some missed maternal deaths caused by legal abortions as well.

The CDC did a very thorough job researching the numbers. If you can cite a more reliable statistic then do so.

Originally Posted by LJ2

It's better not to kill anyone, even if their mother hates them.

51 million abortions since Death Roe. How many of those were in the situations you describe and why are you so anxious for their death?

Now you're just choosing to be an ass therefore this conversation is over.

Originally Posted by LJ2

From the CDC:
An abortion-related death was defined as a death resulting from 1) a direct complication of an abortion, 2) an indirect complication caused by the chain of events initiated by abortion, or 3) aggravation of a preexisting condition by the physiologic or psychologic effects of the abortion (1,2). Sources of data for abortion-related deaths included national and state vital records, maternal mortality review committees, surveys, private citizens and groups, media reports, health-care providers, medical examiners' reports, and computerized searches of full-text newspaper databases. All deaths associated with any type of abortion, induced or spontaneous, were investigated. For each death possibly related to an induced abortion or an abortion of unknown type, clinical records and autopsy reports were requested and reviewed by two clinically experienced medical epidemiologists to determine the cause of death and whether the death was abortion related. Each abortion-related death was then categorized as legal induced, illegal induced, spontaneous, or unknown (whether induced or spontaneous).

If you've got a better number, tell me where it's from and the research methods they used to find it. I did that for you.

Here's an organization telling pregnant girls that we'll give you an abortion and won't even tell your mom and dad. These people are sick.


They should have added, "And if you were raped by an adult, we won't tell the police."

:rolleyes:

One minor bullet point. The focus? Sexual health services.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

:rolleyes:

One minor bullet point. The focus? Sexual health services.

It's a simple read. The focus in very bold letters is telling children that their parents don't have to know. "DO MY PARENTS HAVE TO KNOW?" The answer is no if:
- You've been raped
- You have a potentially fatal disease
- You have a baby
- You kill your baby
- You have a baby and want to kill her

They're sick people.

You challenged me to show you an ad promoting abortions and I gave you one.

Hey I find Reps refreshing,

They want to save every child, and force women to have babies and then?

Are they willing to offer economic aid to make the decision to keep a baby eaier? Reps would like to phase out Welfare so thats not an answer either.

If women werent left alone (man has left state) with this problem, then I hope that more women would keep their child.

How many women have been fired in the past because they became pregnent?

I found it great that Reps say who immoral abortion is, but dont offer any economic aid. Just remember women are humans too. Why are some dogs treated better then women and their babies?

Originally Posted by bennyhill

Hey I find Reps refreshing,

They want to save every child, and force women to have babies and then?

Are they willing to offer economic aid to make the decision to keep a baby eaier? Reps would like to phase out Welfare so thats not an answer either.

If women werent left alone (man has left state) with this problem, then I hope that more women would keep their child.

How many women have been fired in the past because they became pregnent?

I found it great that Reps say who immoral abortion is, but dont offer any economic aid. Just remember women are humans too. Why are some dogs treated better then women and their babies?

That's a broad brush you're painting with.