Thread: Public School Gibberish

Originally Posted by LJ2

If the KKK designed a school system it would look like this.

I have said this for years... the schools, along with the crime... if it came from some outside source, the outrage would be impossible to ignore.

But being fucked over or shoot and killed by a 'brotha' is somehow 'noble'

And what would be your soloution then? Personal;ly I'd go for a increase in expenditure, compelte rebuild of many failing schools (including buildings), closure of unachieveing schools, allowing parents to set up their own schools, greater targets and reviews of teacher and head performance, greater focus on formal academia, uniforms and so forth-make a school as school which pupils can take pride in rather than a social place they're forced to go to.

1. Make the "public service unions" illegal.
2. Enforce discipline in the classroom.
3. Enforce the law on the streets.

Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger

And what would be your soloution then? Personal;ly I'd go for a increase in expenditure, compelte rebuild of many failing schools (including buildings), closure of unachieveing schools, allowing parents to set up their own schools, greater targets and reviews of teacher and head performance, greater focus on formal academia, uniforms and so forth-make a school as school which pupils can take pride in rather than a social place they're forced to go to.

Wharfedale, have you ever been to DEtroit?

I'd do away with tenure. And, yes, I say that after having taught in a state college.

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Wharfedale, have you ever been to DEtroit?

I'd do away with tenure. And, yes, I say that after having taught in a state college.

Nope, I hope to go their someday to watch the Lions but I havn't been yet. I have looked into education and education policy a fair bit though. TBH the biggst problem isn't the unions, isn't the buildings or even the quality of the teaching (though these are all contributing factors) the biggest problems the social community these kids come from and their parents expectations of school.

Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger

Nope, I hope to go their someday to watch the Lions but I havn't been yet. I have looked into education and education policy a fair bit though. TBH the biggst problem isn't the unions, isn't the buildings or even the quality of the teaching (though these are all contributing factors) the biggest problems the social community these kids come from and their parents expectations of school.

And that is from educators themselves. I have to disagree because in my long life I have known enough people who were able to turn their lives around and escape horrible circumstances with the help of mentors at school. "It's ALL the parents' fault." Yeah that's what they WANT you to believe. That way educators don't have to be accountable.

Sing to Bud jingle

"When you say Deee- troy.....ttt , you've siad it all"

Detroit is a city that can't get anything right.

Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger

And what would be your soloution then? Personal;ly I'd go for a increase in expenditure, compelte rebuild of many failing schools (including buildings), closure of unachieveing schools, allowing parents to set up their own schools, greater targets and reviews of teacher and head performance, greater focus on formal academia, uniforms and so forth-make a school as school which pupils can take pride in rather than a social place they're forced to go to.

An increase in expenditure? Detroit spends about $13,500/pupil and has a high school graduation rate of 24.9%
Mesa Arizona spends $6,558 and graduates 77.1%. ( less than half the money and 3 times as many students graduate) As a matter of fact, in a list of 50 large cities Mesa ranks dead last in expenditures and first in graduation rates while Detroit ranks 7th in expenditures and dead last in grad. rate.

The biggest difference in the populations of Detroit and Mesa is the fact that 81.6% of Detroit's population is black and 81.65% Of Mesa's is white.
If we assume, (as I do) that blacks and whites have an equal intellectual capacity, why then the disparity?

Originally Posted by Ernie S.

An increase in expenditure? Detroit spends about $13,500/pupil and has a high school graduation rate of 24.9%
Mesa Arizona spends $6,558 and graduates 77.1%. ( less than half the money and 3 times as many students graduate) As a matter of fact, in a list of 50 large cities Mesa ranks dead last in expenditures and first in graduation rates while Detroit ranks 7th in expenditures and dead last in grad. rate.

The biggest difference in the populations of Detroit and Mesa is the fact that 81.6% of Detroit's population is black and 81.65% Of Mesa's is white.
If we assume, (as I do) that blacks and whites have an equal intellectual capacity, why then the disparity?

Social situation, drugs, quality of secondary education and so forth-people get sucked into things outside their education which comrpomise it or do stupid things. Its a very hard cycle to break once people get onto it, as Sunshine says some can manage to break down with help (and no, its not all the educators fault, poor quality of teaching dosn't help but theres so many factors that you can't balem that totally). If a kid dosn't feel safe in school he won't study, or if he dosn't feel that his education is valuable or thats its getting anywhere it won't help.

I can't give you a total solotuion; there isn't one but I can say what we've done over here and what has worked. In Nottingham we have some of the worst schools, and worst gang problems, in the UK but the goverment instituted its programn of academies and refitting schools a couple of years ago and its been remarkably sucessful. It has a few key aims;

-raising the prestige of schools and education, this means new buildings, diverting the best graduates to education (the teach first scheme), new uniforms, sports teams and so forth. Anything to try and intergrate kids and their lives into the school as much as possible.

-A clear disciplinary structure, but with explusion being a rarely used option. Sadly explusion dosn't really work, far more effective are techniques like isolation which force them to work without removing them from the environment to go god knows where

-Longer opening hours-essentally keeping the school open longer by offering extra-curricular programns to try and keep the kids out of their negative social enviorment

-MAking sure kids feel safe in school and in the school enviroment, especally by keeping out weapons and drugs as well as breaking up gangs. Uniforms are very useful in this reguard, as is careful class planning to break up gangs which form within schools.

-Greater integration of social services and parents, to identify problems early and hopefully to give the parents a better idea of the value of an education.

Its not an easy task and these are just a few suggestions-I don't know which will work and which won't in this situation-we've also included more private investors to give finiance to new buildings and so forth. However there has to be a descernable economic improvement as well as an improvement of the social situation for it to work.

Any idea where most of those funds go?

I think the failure of education is really the failure of society. Too many children are warehoused with ten other children the same age thus missing out on meaningful adult interaction. How much can you learn, if you only talk to other three year old. After I retired I began watching my granddaughter who was three months old when we started together. These were some of the happiest ted from the experience.and most rewarding days of my life. I'm sure my granddaughter prof fitted

Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger

And what would be your soloution then? Personal;ly I'd go for a increase in expenditure, compelte rebuild of many failing schools (including buildings), closure of unachieveing schools, allowing parents to set up their own schools, greater targets and reviews of teacher and head performance, greater focus on formal academia, uniforms and so forth-make a school as school which pupils can take pride in rather than a social place they're forced to go to.

wharf , we have increased expenditure beyond tolerance for what we receive...its not dollars, we've done that, its the system the kids are in.

the other parts I agree, charter schools, and vouchers to let kids out of the under performing schools so they can go.

Originally Posted by Imperator

wharf , we have increased expenditure beyond tolerance for what we receive...its not dollars, we've done that, its the system the kids are in.

the other parts I agree, charter schools, and vouchers to let kids out of the under performing schools so they can go.

Vouchers would be great for kids that want to learn. It would give their parents the ability to get them into a more conducive environment. Those students usually do quite well in the poorest of schools, but could excell in a school where the majority of a teacher's time is taken up by discipline.
The bigger problem is a cultural one where some students seem to think that doing well in school makes them traitors to their race.

Originally Posted by Imperator

wharf , we have increased expenditure beyond tolerance for what we receive...its not dollars, we've done that, its the system the kids are in.

the other parts I agree, charter schools, and vouchers to let kids out of the under performing schools so they can go.

I just found out how much is spent, in conversions is about the same as our pupil premium. Then the question is; how is it spent? Any ideas on the breakdown?