Thread: Like traditional values? Yer a hater

Originally Posted by reality

yeah i imagine with his level of wealth I could bang a 20something centerfold with the nicest rack i've ever freaking seen when I was in my 80's too.

Big bucks, a bunch of hot bitches, followed by a traditional Christian marriage. Some guys have all the luck. Good ol' Hugh sure knows how to live his life:

Originally Posted by wrxsti

Big bucks, a bunch of hot bitches, followed by a traditional Christian marriage. Some guys have all the luck. Good ol' Hugh sure knows how to live his life:

pretty sure homeslice has been married twice before and I know he has been at least once. Traditional Christian marriages both.

Originally Posted by wrxsti

Big bucks, a bunch of hot bitches, followed by a traditional Christian marriage. Some guys have all the luck. Good ol' Hugh sure knows how to live his life:

a traditional marriage views the wife as a piece of property.

Originally Posted by reality

Do not murder precedes tribal culture (which is what judaism was at when God gave them their commandments. and I don't mean the 10. I mean him chilling with ole Abe) as it arises from the original social contract that FORMS tribal culture. You don't have ANY society until man stops killing man for simply being in his general vicinity. I won't kill you if you won't kill me IS THE ORIGINAL LAW. The first. Followed swiftly with I won't take your shit if you won't take my shit.

And so did polygamy. Big deal. China had several forms of marriage or spousal binding over the millenia. Just LIKE JUDAISM DID. First the jews had polygamy (read the bible) , and eventually it turned to monogamy. The bible has several passages about how to go about polygamy, should we embrace that? I mean it IS the original definition right? While we're at it the Bible has lots to say about slaves and how to properly sell your daughter into slavery, not to mention many exhortations to not allow X type of nonbeliever to live, should we bring those back? I mean they were laws for a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG TIME in Europe the heartland of Western Culture. (the most famous being in Exodus where the exhortation is "thou shalt not suffer the witch to live".)
( Interesting fact of the day: the term WITCH in the Kings english is translated in the original language as "caster of HARMFUL SPELLS" marking a distinction between white magic (helpful) and black magic (harmful).)

I don't know why you keep bringing Jews and the bible into this. Its not about religion as far as I am concerned.

All I am saying is that one man/one woman marriage has been part of our culture for a long time, and those who want to keep it that way are not haters.

Originally Posted by redrover

a traditional marriage views the wife as a piece of property.

what do you think a trophy wife is? she may not be his property in name but I'll bet his kids lawyers slapped her with a prenup hard enough to give her a miscarriage if she was preggers.

Originally Posted by Brexx

I don't know why you keep bringing Jews and the bible into this. Its not about religion as far as I am concerned.

All I am saying is that one man/one woman marriage has been part of our culture for a long time, and those who want to keep it that way are not haters.

I'm using it as illustration. Cultural norms can and DO and in fact MUST change if the culture doesn't want to stagnate. To illustrate this I used a RELIGIOUS ruled culture (the Tribes of Judea) that CHANGED ITS MORES AND NORMS in direct confrontation with religous teachings written down for all to see. That shit was set in stone and they STILL changed to adapt. If a theocracy can change its shit around WHY ON EARTH can't a Representative Republic? That's just silly.
Want an example of a stagnate culture? Rome. Worked great at first and got worse and worse and worse and then died right off. All that tech. All that infrastructure. All that military might. All the economic power. It all meant nothing in the end. The Athenian empire is also a good illustration of what happens to a culture that refuses to adjust its norms and mores from time to time.

Want an even better (though fictional) example? The Imperium of Man in the Warhammer 40k universe of science fiction fame.

Originally Posted by reality

I'm using it as illustration. Cultural norms can and DO and in fact MUST change if the culture doesn't want to stagnate. To illustrate this I used a RELIGIOUS ruled culture (the Tribes of Judea) that CHANGED ITS MORES AND NORMS in direct confrontation with religous teachings written down for all to see. That shit was set in stone and they STILL changed to adapt. If a theocracy can change its shit around WHY ON EARTH can't a Representative Republic? That's just silly.
Want an example of a stagnate culture? Rome. Worked great at first and got worse and worse and worse and then died right off. All that tech. All that infrastructure. All that military might. All the economic power. It all meant nothing in the end. The Athenian empire is also a good illustration of what happens to a culture that refuses to adjust its norms and mores from time to time.

Want an even better (though fictional) example? The Imperium of Man in the Warhammer 40k universe of science fiction fame.

Yes, cultural norms can and do change over time, hopefully for the better. There is widespread disagreement whether gay marriage is a change for the better or not. To label those who oppose gay marriage as haters is nasty, and usually the tactic of those who cannot make their case in an intelligent way.

Originally Posted by Brexx

I don't know why you keep bringing Jews and the bible into this. Its not about religion as far as I am concerned.

All I am saying is that one man/one woman marriage has been part of our culture for a long time, and those who want to keep it that way are not haters.

What are they then? What do you call somebody who wants to deny another person the right to formalise a relationship legally just because they disagree with it morally and for NO other reason like I mentioned before.

And what culture are you talking about? The Romans and Greeks all had concubines. The Jews and muslims certainly did. The Franks, Germans, Byzantines. Scythians, Chinese, Japanese, even Incans and North American Native peoples, all had several sexual partners. If anything we, with just one wife, are the exception, not the rule, to the point where it appears not just unusual but downright perverted and sick.

Originally Posted by reality

I'm using it as illustration. Cultural norms can and DO and in fact MUST change if the culture doesn't want to stagnate. To illustrate this I used a RELIGIOUS ruled culture (the Tribes of Judea) that CHANGED ITS MORES AND NORMS in direct confrontation with religous teachings written down for all to see. That shit was set in stone and they STILL changed to adapt. If a theocracy can change its shit around WHY ON EARTH can't a Representative Republic? That's just silly.
Want an example of a stagnate culture? Rome. Worked great at first and got worse and worse and worse and then died right off. All that tech. All that infrastructure. All that military might. All the economic power. It all meant nothing in the end. The Athenian empire is also a good illustration of what happens to a culture that refuses to adjust its norms and mores from time to time.

Want an even better (though fictional) example? The Imperium of Man in the Warhammer 40k universe of science fiction fame.

When I was in China, I learned that Confucianism is largely responsible for China not keeping up with the west. That philosophy seems innocuous enough with respect for the elderly and all. But what do the elderly NOT like? The elderly do NOT like change. This is what has kept China, who once considered herself the most civilized nation, behind.

I think it would be nice to be treated the way I was treated in China. But, our focus on youth has kept us ahead of the game.

Originally Posted by John Drake

What are they then? What do you call somebody who wants to deny another person the right to formalise a relationship legally just because they disagree with it morally and for NO other reason like I mentioned before.

And what culture are you talking about? The Romans and Greeks all had concubines. The Jews and muslims certainly did. The Franks, Germans, Byzantines. Scythians, Chinese, Japanese, even Incans and North American Native peoples, all had several sexual partners. If anything we, with just one wife, are the exception, not the rule, to the point where it appears not just unusual but downright perverted and sick.

If they want to formalize their relationship they can go to a lawyer and draw up whatever agreement they want.

As to your second paragraph - are you arguing in favor of polygamy? Gay polygamous marriage. Now wouldn't that be "progressive"!

Originally Posted by John Drake

What are they then? What do you call somebody who wants to deny another person the right to formalise a relationship legally just because they disagree with it morally and for NO other reason like I mentioned before.

Who is trying to do this? What law prevents two people from entering into a legal agreement concerning property and such?

Originally Posted by reality

hey hey hey, hinduism isn't the only religion that likes to borrow things. Christianity is a big proponent of that as well: look at Christmas/Yule/Saturnalia. Christmas isn't even when historians place the figure of Christ to be born but we celebrate that little 8lb 6oz baby jesus' birthday on december 25 anyway. Lots of religions are into coopting other people's schtick.
Though you're right the Hindus are definitely past masters along with the Buddhists.

Now, now. We LIKE our pagan holidays. Try some eggnog. It will make you feel better!

Originally Posted by reality

I just fucking told you. Native american tribes had a provision for it. Several other pagan societies as well. Still others had no specific prohibition against it.
The ban on homosexuality is Abrahamic in origin, coming first from the Torah, then the Koran and Bible. Its also a PURELY RELIGIOUS PROHIBITION. Which is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN UNDER US LAW, so stop using it as a justification. You do nothing but strengthen my case when you say that marriage is a religious institution, as the government is to have NOTHING to do with religious institutions. So pick a new example... Don't worry I'll wait. :rolleyes:

Well, hey! I've been told by Native Americans that they will never understand the white man. Under their system there were no taxes and women did all the work!~