Thread: News You Won't Find In The Liberal Media Part III Ws Kids Can't Read

Originally Posted by Occam's Razor

We apparently spend more per capita on education than any other country.

Yet, plenty of more socialized education systems which perform far better than ours end up spending far less per capita -- like Finland.

Somehow or another, America manages to make everything expensive while still ineffective.

Maybe we just have a combination of a really corrupt federal government, really corrupt local governments, and certain subcultures that are useless in an economic sense.

Either way, it appears that the "American Way" of education is about as crappy at producing skilled labor as our healthcare system is at providing affordable care.

Other counties have a much greater level of discipline in their school systems than we do. In the US you don't want discipline because it will hurt the poor child's self-esteem.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

How about parenting? Why don't you ever want to talk about the fact that parents dump their kids on the schools, barely able to sit in a desk for more than 10 minutes without acting like an asshole? Or that you can't get a parent to come in and actually discuss their child, help with schoolwork, or otherwise be bothered with their child's education?

I know that you conservatives LOVE to place the blame on everyone else for everything, but it's time you looked in the mirror. YOU share as much of the blame for the failure of our schools as anyone else.

To be sure, there are responsibilities that needs to be addressed by the parents. Of course, all that doesn't matter if the school does not have any discipline. The parents aren't at the school, the kids are. You could have 7 out of 10 parents that teach their kids proper behavior and all that greatness but that still leaves 30% of the student population to disrupt everyone else. Then the other kids see this and they want to have "fun" too and mess around (they are kids after all). They see that the other kids get away with it and they advance in grade just the same as they do.

A little while ago there was discipline in the schools and this happened w/o the parents having to sit in every class and have student-teacher conferences every week.

Point being, you don't need to have any contribution from the parents to have discipline in the school and to hold kids to the standard.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy Tsquare,

a fascinatin' piece, i don't dispute one word 'o it.

it claims that 32% 'o 8th graders in Wisconsin read proficiently, which be slightly above the national average.

just so ye know, 39% 'o 8th graders in Wisconsin be proficient in math...the national average be 25%.

so to be fair, it sure seems that teachers in Wisconsin are doin' a pretty good job. thar teachers who helm the vessel in high school are probably some 'o the best in our land. Wisconsin's SAT average that thar students have totalled rank that state #2 in our entire nation.

its true, many 'o the numbers i cited are not to be found in the mainstream media, but it supports the arguement that teachers in Wisconsin are probably underpaid, fer they do some very good work.

- MeadHallPirate

MHP,

I don't think you can consider it very good work when what you're comparing it to is even worse. I mean, if you were to hold that % to school standards than 32 and 39% is still far into the F range. So the WI school system is getting a higher F than other school systems. That's not really something to brag about, is it?

At grade 8, the average reading score in 2009 was one
point higher than in 2007 and four points higher than
in 1992 but was not consistently higher than in all the
assessment years in between. Gains since 2007 were
seen for lower- and middle-performing students at the
10th, 25th, and 50th percentiles, while scores for
higher-performing students at the 75th and 90th
percentiles showed no significant change. In 2009,
about three-quarters (75 percent) of eighth-graders
performed at or above the Basic level, and one-third
(32 percent) performed at or above Proficient. Both
percentages were higher in 2009 than in 2007 and
1992. Three percent of eighth-graders performed at the
Advanced level in 2009, which was

well maybe the reading materials are harder.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Did you know that the blog you linked to offered no proof of such a ranking?

Of course you did...

Worldwide education and library spending
In 2001, the 29 countries covered in this report spent approximately $1.1 trillion dollars on education or roughly 4.1 percent of their collective gross domestic product. The United States spent the most on education in 2001 at roughly $500 billion, followed by Japan, Germany and France at $139 billion, $89 billion and $82 billion respectively. While the U.S. spent the most in absolute dollars, it ranked tenth in education spending as a percent of GDP at 4.8 percent. Saudi Arabia ranked first investing 9.5 percent of GDP in education. The top five include Norway, Malaysia, France and South Africa. All five countries spent in excess of 5 percent of GDP on education. The United Arab Emirates came in 29th at 1.9 percent of GDP.

Education spending per capita provides another lens to view worldwide education spending. Norway leads the group again with an estimated $2,850 per capita spent on education. The United States ranks second at approximately $1,780. The top five also include France, The Netherlands and Canada. Each spent more than $1,200 in education per capita in 2001. Uganda ranked 29th at approximately $5 per capita.5

Worldwide education and library spending [OCLC]

Originally Posted by fishjoel

MHP,

I don't think you can consider it very good work when what you're comparing it to is even worse. I mean, if you were to hold that % to school standards than 32 and 39% is still far into the F range. So the WI school system is getting a higher F than other school systems. That's not really something to brag about, is it?

ahoy Fishjoel,

not at all, me friend.

8th grade be just one point 'o the arc on a far longer journey. when high school kids in Wisconsin exit the public education system, they are some 'o the brightest kids in our nation.

i'd say every state in the nation ought to take heed and emulate the educational practices 'o Wisconsin.

- MeadHallPirate

ps - ye seem like a nice fellow matey, but imma curious why ye have this fixation 'o disciplinin' children usin' physical force? 'tis a recurrent theme in yer writings anytime the youth 'o our country comes up, ye wants to beat upon them.

aye?

Two things:

1) Increasing the money spent by 65% (which is not really close to 'almost doubling' tsquare ... maybe you can blame your teachers for that) doesn't necessarily fix anything. Was the 65% spent on building new schools? Was it spent on renovating old schools? Was it spent on new books or new teaching programs? If the increase in expense wasn't due to anything pertaining to teaching, you can't really blame the lack of progress on the teachers.

2) I'm skeptical that cutting money to public schools would increase the educational success of our children.

A real breakdown of expenses would identify how much money was spent on actual teaching improvements (new programs, new books, extra training, etc) vs how much was spent on infrastructure (removing asbestos from schools, replacing lead water pipes, updating 50 year old structures, etc) vs how much was spent on administration, bussing, etc.

Unless you can identify that the teachers and teaching programs got 65% more money, blaming the lack of progress on the teachers seems premature at best.

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy Fishjoel,

not at all, me friend.

8th grade be just one point 'o the arc on a far longer journey. when high school kids in Wisconsin exit the public education system, they are some 'o the brightest kids in our nation.

i'd say every state in the nation ought to take heed and emulate the educational practices 'o Wisconsin.

- MeadHallPirate

ps - ye seem like a nice fellow matey, but imma curious why ye have this fixation 'o disciplinin' children usin' physical force? 'tis a recurrent theme in yer writings anytime the youth 'o our country comes up, ye wants to beat upon them.

aye?

sado-maschocism

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy Fishjoel,

not at all, me friend.

8th grade be just one point 'o the arc on a far longer journey. when high school kids in Wisconsin exit the public education system, they are some 'o the brightest kids in our nation.

i'd say every state in the nation ought to take heed and emulate the educational practices 'o Wisconsin.

- MeadHallPirate

ps - ye seem like a nice fellow matey, but imma curious why ye have this fixation 'o disciplinin' children usin' physical force? 'tis a recurrent theme in yer writings anytime the youth 'o our country comes up, ye wants to beat upon them.

aye?

Discipline doesn't have to involve corporal punishment. I had a teach in 5th grade, Mrs. Haffer, that no one messed with. She kept her class on the lock down. She was one of the best teachers I had. In fact, I had a great relationship with almost every single of the teachers known for being strict and I was a trouble maker of a student.

Aside from that, corporal punishment is effective. It's not the only tool in the arsenal of discipline but it is an effective one. You can only say "No" or "don't do that" so many times until a kid figures out you have nothing backing up your words. Once they figure it out, you're pretty much done as an authority figure.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

sado-maschocism

Willful ignorance.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Discipline doesn't have to involve corporal punishment. I had a teach in 5th grade, Mrs. Haffer, that no one messed with. She kept her class on the lock down. She was one of the best teachers I had. In fact, I had a great relationship with almost every single of the teachers known for being strict and I was a trouble maker of a student.

Aside from that, corporal punishment is effective. It's not the only tool in the arsenal of discipline but it is an effective one. You can only say "No" or "don't do that" so many times until a kid figures out you have nothing backing up your words. Once they figure it out, you're pretty much done as an authority figure.

hail Fishjoel,

matey, a stern teacher be fine, i've no problem with that.

i do not, nor would i ever, authorize a teacher to physically assault me own son or daughter.

i find the idear barbaric.

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Willful ignorance.

BDSM dungeon master

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

hail Fishjoel,

matey, a stern teacher be fine, i've no problem with that.

i do not, nor would i ever, authorize a teacher to physically assault me own son or daughter.

i find the idear barbaric.

- MeadHallPirate

they used to beat the living tar outta me, all it did was make me immune to their pain giving techniques and hate them even more, after a good lashing I laughed at them.