Thread: News You Won't Find In The Liberal Media Part III Ws Kids Can't Read

Originally Posted by fishjoel

I really think schools are just poorly managed. We throw tons of money at schools but somehow they are always coming up short. What causes this to occur? I will agree that our school systems do not reward excellence. I've had a fairly personal experience with the school actually getting agry with my mom (who was a teacher) who helped some of her more motivated and talented kids to excel. So the school was actually trying to hold the kids down. Seriously, it's not about money. It's about the school culture in America.

Our school's are underfunded, period.

We AREN'T providing kids ALL the tools they need to succeed.

From State to State electives programs are disappearing. This isn't about mismanagement, it is about underfunding.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

Our school's are underfunded, period.

We AREN'T providing kids ALL the tools they need to succeed.

From State to State electives programs are disappearing. This isn't about mismanagement, it is about underfunding.

I would have a mixed agreement with you. IMHO there is SO much mismanagement of funds that it is really hard to say if there is enough money, too much, or too little. It's clear that not enough money is going to where it needs to go, but I can't really say if enough money is starting out in that direction.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

I would have a mixed agreement with you. IMHO there is SO much mismanagement of funds that it is really hard to say if there is enough money, too much, or too little. It's clear that not enough money is going to where it needs to go, but I can't really say if enough money is starting out in that direction.

When you don't have enough money to KEEP elective programs, I think it's clear whether or not there's enough funding...

"Mismanagement" is a pretty broad term. How specifically do you think money is being mis-spent, or badly allocated?

The Wisconsin teachers make $51,000 a year. Are they getting rich from a cushy government job?

Personally, I'd like to pay teachers twice that, so that we can start getting some marketplace talent in the classrooms. Then I'd break up 'sports monopolies' and expand solar and wind turbine technologies elective courses.

*I'd raise taxes and increase educational spending.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

When you don't have enough money to KEEP elective programs, I think it's clear whether or not there's enough funding...

"Mismanagement" is a pretty broad term. How specifically do you think money is being mis-spent, or badly allocated?

The Wisconsin teachers make $51,000 a year. Are they getting rich from a cushy government job?

Personally, I'd like to pay teachers twice that, so that we can start getting some marketplace talent in the classrooms. Then I'd break up 'sports monopolies' and expand solar and wind turbine technologies elective courses.

*I'd raise taxes and increase educational spending.

Based on my experience within the Denver Public School system, I would say that there are a number of areas of waste:

- incredibly ineffective and top-heavy administration. Part of this is a result of an insistence that administration be made up of teachers. Teaching does not have the same set of skills that makes one a good manager, nor a good administrator, especially when managing budgets.

- a fear of, and mis-application of technology. We paid tens of millions of (tax) dollars to have all of the DPS schools wired for high-speed Internet access, have a very good LAN/WAN technology in place, and still use carbonless in 5 layers for routine paperwork instead of online form submission. HUGE waste of resources, especially given the money spend on warehousing all that crap

- incredible waste of money in operations, materials acquisition, and logistics. I can't even begin to do justice to the horrible waste of money that is seen in how textbooks are purchased and then squandered by school districts.

I could go on, but you get the jist.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

Our school's are underfunded, period.

We AREN'T providing kids ALL the tools they need to succeed.

From State to State electives programs are disappearing. This isn't about mismanagement, it is about underfunding.

And that's where we disagree. Schools get a shit-ton of money.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

When you don't have enough money to KEEP elective programs, I think it's clear whether or not there's enough funding...

"Mismanagement" is a pretty broad term. How specifically do you think money is being mis-spent, or badly allocated?

The Wisconsin teachers make $51,000 a year. Are they getting rich from a cushy government job?

Personally, I'd like to pay teachers twice that, so that we can start getting some marketplace talent in the classrooms. Then I'd break up 'sports monopolies' and expand solar and wind turbine technologies elective courses.

*I'd raise taxes and increase educational spending.

51K as a teacher? Yes, that's pretty damn cushy. They get tons of vacation days, during the school year. On top of that they get 3 months off during the summer. Then there are vacation days and sick days and w/e days. 81K for a job where you only have to work barely over half a year? Are you completely insane???

Originally Posted by fishjoel

And that's where we disagree. Schools get a shit-ton of money.

Compared to what?

Originally Posted by fishjoel

51K as a teacher? Yes, that's pretty damn cushy. They get tons of vacation days, during the school year. On top of that they get 3 months off during the summer. Then there are vacation days and sick days and w/e days. 81K for a job where you only have to work barely over half a year? Are you completely insane???

No, I have seen what teachers do, when they aren't 'in school'. Teachers don't work, JUST during school hours.

Given it takes a good $100,000 and 4 years to become a teacher, would you have them work for minimal wages?

The 'average' NFL player makes $1.1 MILLION a year.

Which is more valuable to your kid's future.

The average stripper/exotic dancer make $55,000 a year.

Teachers aren't valued in our country, even though they are literally tasked with molding our future.

With all do respect THAT is crazy.

ETA:

Plumbers make $49,000

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Based on my experience within the Denver Public School system, I would say that there are a number of areas of waste:

- incredibly ineffective and top-heavy administration. Part of this is a result of an insistence that administration be made up of teachers. Teaching does not have the same set of skills that makes one a good manager, nor a good administrator, especially when managing budgets.

- a fear of, and mis-application of technology. We paid tens of millions of (tax) dollars to have all of the DPS schools wired for high-speed Internet access, have a very good LAN/WAN technology in place, and still use carbonless in 5 layers for routine paperwork instead of online form submission. HUGE waste of resources, especially given the money spend on warehousing all that crap

- incredible waste of money in operations, materials acquisition, and logistics. I can't even begin to do justice to the horrible waste of money that is seen in how textbooks are purchased and then squandered by school districts.

I could go on, but you get the jist.

So, just as soon as we go paperless, most of your complaints will be fixed.

But this doesn't mean we should spend LESS on education. We NEED to fully fund programs that will help students face the world they are about to become a part of...

We AREN'T doing this now.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

No, I have seen what teachers do, when they aren't 'in school'. Teachers don't work, JUST during school hours.

Given it takes a good $100,000 and 4 years to become a teacher, would you have them work for minimal wages?

The 'average' NFL player makes $1.1 MILLION a year.

Which is more valuable to your kid's future.

The average stripper/exotic dancer make $55,000 a year.

Teachers aren't valued in our country, even though they are literally tasked with molding our future.

With all do respect THAT is crazy.

Teachers also get really good benefits to go along with all their days off. And job security to boot.

Originally Posted by KingNorthTX

So, just as soon as we go paperless, most of your complaints will be fixed.

But this doesn't mean we should spend LESS on education. We NEED to fully fund programs that will help students face the world they are about to become a part of...

We AREN'T doing this now.

Like I said, I just don't know - there's so much inefficiency in the system that what money goes in barely trickles to where it needs to go. It's a crying shame.

Believe me, we are on the same side on this.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Teachers also get really good benefits to go along with all their days off. And job security to boot.

Eh, the benefits were OK, not significantly better than what I get in the private sector. Job security? My school lost 1/3 of its teachers when I got laid off.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

Teachers also get really good benefits to go along with all their days off. And job security to boot.

I think you should attempt to qualify "really good benefits"...

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Eh, the benefits were OK, not significantly better than what I get in the private sector. Job security? My school lost 1/3 of its teachers when I got laid off.

Well, yes...when the entire country is hurting so bad that they have to make big budget cuts then teachers actually lose their jobs. Point being, it's really hard to fire a teacher unless they get caught killing a student in the middle of raping them