Thread: Parenting .45

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

There is no question conservatives and liberals raise their children differently. Conservatives believe in the authoritarian model where severe punishment is essential. Usually physical force is used.

It explains why conservatism can only destroy and never build. And why conservatism does not value honesty, ethics or compassion. It is why conservatives are the modern day Pharisee.

The way to understand the conservative moral system is to consider a strict father family. The father is The Decider, the ultimate moral authority in the family. His authority must not be challenged. His job is to protect the family, to support the family (by winning competitions in the marketplace), and to teach his kids right from wrong by disciplining them physically when they do wrong. The use of force is necessary and required. Only then will children develop the internal discipline to become moral beings. And only with such discipline will they be able to prosper. And what of people who are not prosperous? They don't have discipline, and without discipline they cannot be moral, so they deserve their poverty. The good people are hence the prosperous people. Helping others takes away their discipline, and hence makes them both unable to prosper on their own and function morally.

Liberals parenting is models on a nurturant parent family. Briefly, it assumes that the world is basically good and can be made better and that one must work toward that. Children are born good; parents can make them better. Nurturing involves empathy, and the responsibility to take care of oneself and others for whom we are responsible. On a larger scale, specific policies follow, such as governmental protection in form of a social safety net and government regulation, universal education (to ensure competence, fairness), civil liberties and equal treatment (fairness and freedom), accountability (derived from trust), public service (from responsibility), open government (from open communication), and the promotion of an economy that benefits all and functions to promote these values, which are traditional progressive values in American politics.

Here is how the two methods manifest in children:

In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children's temperaments. They weren't even thinking about political orientation.

Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects' childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.

Oh bullshit. The Greatest Generation were raised by parents who laid the rules down and you better not fuck up. The world did not revolve around that generation of kids, and they were informed of it at home and in school. Today we soothe little egos, there are no losers, everybody wins, and all the rest of that bullshit.

Many kids are raised up today to feel special, and better, and its all about "me". This has created a society full of selfish little twats, who even get mad when someone cuts them off on the hiway and go into road rage.

Life has a way, with or without parents to teach you by physical discomfort and even pain. You piss on an electric fence, you will never make that mistake again. You hold your hand too close to what you are nailing and you smash your finger, causing intolerable pain. You tend to learn from the experience and are more careful the next time. In my case if I screwed up grandly at home when growing up, I got a belt across my ass. My screw ups were few and far between. Why? Because like pissing on that electric fence, I really am not fond of pain.

So these days you cannot put a belt across an ass, but when your brat acts like a brat towards a cop he will do what you should have done. Except he will want to hurt the brat, where you would have been careful not to break any skin. A belt across the ass early is better than a baton up side the head later on.

The only thing worse than a bratty kid are the parents that allowed them to be that way. The world is full of em.

I never spanked my kids, it was not needed. But they thought I would. My voice sufficed, but then I never had a boy. Only girls. But I taught them that they were no one special. If they wanted to be special, live their lives with consideration for others, don't lie, cheat or steal, and work very hard at whatever job they do. If they met those requirements most people would think they were special. It is earned,not given out like candy. I could not be any prouder of my girls. They are better people than me, which is what I was aiming for. If you don't try to raise up your kids to be better than you, you are shirking your responsiblity to the human race.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

If it is her choice, nothing.

Were you forced to do so to help pay the bills? Or was it your own choice so you could buy some really cool toys you couldn't otherwise afford?

The young lady doesn't have to work as she isn't right now. However if she wants spending money or a new computer ... I suggest she get a job.

For me working was a way to have material things ... I could otherwise not have had. I paid no bills ... nor was I handed a laid back ... wallet filled lifestyle.

Originally Posted by michael h

I explored as did my children. But they were punished when their behavior was out of line for their age. As I told them all ... we will have a drink together when you are the legal drinking age ... and I stuck to this rule. However drug use and drinking at a young age lead to other behaviors ... that are scumbag behaviors. I think we both have known many teens that went down this road and its not every kid who drinks that will have scumbag behavior. I think its safe to say many teens will die driving drunk (my town 3000 pop ... a carload every year ... dead) and many teens will steal from their neighbors and community. Some will recover from this path ... others won't.

And the way a parent handles the initial issue of drinking or light drugs goes a LONG way towards what lesson the kids learn. A good yelling and harsh restriction merely teaches the lesson of "don't get caught.". On the other hand when I drink now... almost 30 years later... I STILL think back to that first discussion I had with my dad.

Originally Posted by michael h

What privacy? The right of privacy to do what you damn well please as a child?

Did she get caught posting foulness months before on the net? And her response to her grounding was ... Yah dad I'm going to do it again ... because I damn well feel like doing it? Privacy lol

What don't you understand mike? First lets look at what she did and didn't do. The girl DID her chores, she DID her homework; so she didn't DO as she well damn well pleases. She did what she was told. Did she or didn't she mike?? But you also demand that she be SILENT. She not allowed to talk about it with her peers.

She must worship, not just obey.

Originally Posted by michael h

The young lady doesn't have to work as she isn't right now. However if she wants spending money or a new computer ... I suggest she get a job.

Only her apparently domineering father is seemingly insisting she get a job.

Originally Posted by michael h

For me working was a way to have material things ... I could otherwise not have had. I paid no bills ... nor was I handed a laid back ... wallet filled lifestyle.

In that case, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was your decision and you received the benefits of that labor.

OTOH my brother and I had to work in the family business at one stage with no compensation whatsoever. That is an entirely different story.

There are child labor laws in the US for good reason. It used to be that many children were viciously exploited. Now that only occurs anymore on farms. Apparently the current law only allows children over 12 to work 3 hours on school days anyway outside of farm environments.

I guess she has to consider herself lucky that her father is only requiring her to get a job as a clerk, instead of working on a farm 12 hours per day while going to school.

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

What don't you understand mike? First lets look at what she did and didn't do. The girl DID her chores, she DID her homework; so she didn't DO as she well damn well pleases. She did what she was told. Did she or didn't she mike?? But you also demand that she be SILENT. She not allowed to talk about it with her peers.

She must worship, not just obey.

How does doing good things ... dismiss bad things? Ok Son, I caught you drinking, but it's OK ... you did your homework and chores. How does doing good things negate ... negative behavior ... daughter ... STFU, posting crap on the internet, it is unacceptable and will not be allowed in this home. Now if posting such things is acceptable in YOUR home ... go right ahead and allow it. However it's not your child ... nor is it your home, you don't lay the ground rules for other parents as to what is acceptable. I once grounded one of my own children for expletives posted on the net ... it was unacceptable in my home and resulted in the loss of computer privileges ... that's what we called it in my home ... a privilege, not a right.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Oh bullshit. The Greatest Generation were raised by parents who laid the rules down and you better not fuck up. The world did not revolve around that generation of kids, and they were informed of it at home and in school. Today we soothe little egos, there are no losers, everybody wins, and all the rest of that bullshit.

Many kids are raised up today to feel special, and better, and its all about "me". This has created a society full of selfish little twats, who even get mad when someone cuts them off on the hiway and go into road rage.

Life has a way, with or without parents to teach you by physical discomfort and even pain. You piss on an electric fence, you will never make that mistake again. You hold your hand too close to what you are nailing and you smash your finger, causing intolerable pain. You tend to learn from the experience and are more careful the next time. In my case if I screwed up grandly at home when growing up, I got a belt across my ass. My screw ups were few and far between. Why? Because like pissing on that electric fence, I really am not fond of pain.

So these days you cannot put a belt across an ass, but when your brat acts like a brat towards a cop he will do what you should have done. Except he will want to hurt the brat, where you would have been careful not to break any skin. A belt across the ass early is better than a baton up side the head later on.

The only thing worse than a bratty kid are the parents that allowed them to be that way. The world is full of em.

I never spanked my kids, it was not needed. But they thought I would. My voice sufficed, but then I never had a boy. Only girls. But I taught them that they were no one special. If they wanted to be special, live their lives with consideration for others, don't lie, cheat or steal, and work very hard at whatever job they do. If they met those requirements most people would think they were special. It is earned,not given out like candy. I could not be any prouder of my girls. They are better people than me, which is what I was aiming for. If you don't try to raise up your kids to be better than you, you are shirking your responsiblity to the human race.

Nice rant. But the nurturant parent family is not about spoiling kids. My dad and mom were from the Greatest generation. My dad was a paratrooper in the 11th Airborne and saw action in the South Pacific. He was the toughest man I know...he NEVER hit me.

And as I recall the kids I went to school with who ended up at the end of a night stick. They started at the end if their father's FIST.

And I'm glad you never tested your theory and pissed on an electric fence.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

Only her apparently domineering father is seemingly insisting she get a job.

In that case, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was your decision and you received the benefits of that labor.

OTOH my brother and I had to work in the family business at one stage with no compensation whatsoever. That is an entirely different story.

There are child labor laws in the US for good reason. It used to be that many children were viciously exploited. Now that only occurs anymore on farms. Apparently the current law only allows children over 12 to work 3 hours on school days anyway outside of farm environments.

I guess she has to consider herself lucky that her father is only requiring her to get a job as a clerk, instead of working on a farm 12 hours per day while going to school.

I didn't see that it was a requirement for her to work? Was it? I never forced any of mine too, yet they did get the occasional job. I've worked without pay as a child ... not in a business, and was more then willing, generally to help family or charity stuff like the Catholic fund raiser (not Catholic myself).

Yeah. He was whining in the video that she wouldn't get a job even though he was insisting she do so.

And my brother and I had to work 12 hours per day or so with no pay at all for an entire summer.

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

Nice rant. But the nurturant parent family is not about spoiling kids. My dad and mom were from the Greatest generation. My dad was a paratrooper in the 11th Airborne and saw action in the South Pacific. He was the toughest man I know...he NEVER hit me.

And as I recall the kids I went to school with who ended up at the end of a night stick. They started at the end if their father's FIST.

And I'm glad you never tested your theory and pissed on an electric fence.

We all have known those on the end of a fist ... that's called abuse, usually a useless feckin drunk.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

Yeah. He was whining in the video that she wouldn't get a job even though he was insisting she do so.

And my brother and I had to work 12 hours per day or so with no pay at all for an entire summer.

I'll chuckle as its in the past ... I can imagine it (12 hr days and no reward) would rankle any teen. Was your family so tight that your dad couldn't to pay you or was it a life lesson he was trying to teach?

Originally Posted by michael h

How does doing good things ... dismiss bad things? Ok Son, I caught you drinking, but it's OK ... you did your homework and chores. How does doing good things negate ... negative behavior ... daughter ... STFU, posting crap on the internet, it is unacceptable and will not be allowed in this home. Now if posting such things is acceptable in YOUR home ... go right ahead and allow it. However it's not your child ... nor is it your home, you don't lay the ground rules for other parents as to what is acceptable. I once grounded one of my own children for expletives posted on the net ... it was unacceptable in my home and resulted in the loss of computer privileges ... that's what we called it in my home ... a privilege, not a right.

You still don't understand. The girl did everything her parents told her to do. But that is not enough for you. She also has to like it. And if she doesn't like it, she is not allowed to say anything to her peers. She must be SILENT...

You VIL be SILENT!!! Or ve vil kut out your ezes vit a soup spoon!!! achtung!!!

As to what expectation of what will be seen on the net ... a Maine football coach had a nude photo up for 10 minutes on facebook ... probably by accident ... but viewable to the public. He's done. Find another job.