and out of it came those deplorable 527 groups

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

True, but that is because of the limited nature of MCcain Feingold, which had to be watered-down to pass.

For example. Mitch McConnell (R-KY), guy who led the fight (raising $30 million out of state) against Russ in 1998 because MCconnell knew campaign finance reform was on Feingold's 'to do' list, and wanted it stopped dead in its tracks, lead the senate opposition to the bill and only was brought arounbd when the polls showed that the public overwhelmingly equated PAC $ with corruption, had to be appeased.

No one is saying McCain Feingold is perfect; it isn't. But it is the first, tiny step towards what is required- public financing of campaigns, in order to restore our democracy.

See Kevin Phillips' (sure you know that name) 2000 book 'Wealth and Democracy'.

I see that we still have to spoonfeed Samantha.

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843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

I think it's great that McCain and Feingold took the first steps to reform the system. Now they need to do more, or maybe some other "good guys" can take the ball and run with it. Let's vote out all the creeps who don't want to make the system better and more democratic and fair. It's not right that only millionaires get to lead us. We need more real patriots in government. Middle class patriots. If we only have millionaires running things, we will lose our democracy.

Dude what's up?

Peace brother. I love you.

And Matt, thanks for posting it.

The problem, IMHO, is that McCain-Feingold stifles free speech.

When you talk about preventing "special interest groups" from speaking, what you are really talking about is preventing individuals from speaking.

Groups like Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and even the NRA are made up of private citizens. To say that we, the people, may not speak out about a candidate's positions in the period of time closest to an election - but the media can - is wrong, IMHO.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Not any more than controlling a robot equates to controlling the robot's master.

Mordecai Lee explained it best on '4th Street Forum' last week:

'Right now, thanks to our political system centering on money, corporations and wealthy individuals speak in DC through a bullhorn, while the public has but a whisper.'

Do you know that 99% of ALL 'campaign contributions' (really 'bribes') come from just 4% of individuals. And corporations, of course.

That's true I can't argue with that, Matt. I guess the point they are trying to make is that those special interests (and I'd say it's mainly the big oil and major polluters, not the save the earth and protect our constitutional rights types) they have too big a voice and the rest of our voices get shut out. I don't know the answer, and I'm sure the bill needs tweaking, but I am glad someone is doing something, and McCain and Feingold ARE the good guys, I'm pretty sure of it.

They are trying. I give them each full credit for that.

Unfortunately, the legislation as adopted gave rise to the 527s and some of the dirtiest campaigning (on both sides) we have ever had.

I think we would be well served with a specific, relatively low hard limit on campaign spending. Say $5 million per campaign.

Compared to the immense spending of the past years, $5 million is a pittance.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

I'd be for that, Matt. It's time to take big money out of politics, and that may very well be the solution.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

There's only one form of campaign needed, full disclosure of all contributions. All of the hoops, bells and whistles are just designed to limit the exercise of free speech by individuals and groups of individuals. The greatest antidote for a diseased system is SUNSHINE. Expose everything and nothing is left to mold in the corner.

A true campaign finance reform bill needs but one sentence.
"All candidates must disclose the source and amount of all campaign contributions." Period.

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843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

lets see so Big oil is the major contributor to the right and George Sorose to the left:0

( just a joke )

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

IIRC, Republican citizens are the largest contributors to the RNC. I don't believe the same can be said of the DNC. (I'll try to dig up the article that I read supporting that claim later)

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843rd Bomb Wing - Strategic Air Command
"Peace is our Profession"

"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.
" - James Wilson, U. S. Supreme Court Justice and Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution

yeah i just didthe poke fun thing since liberals all point to big oil and repubs to labor unions or george

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

Won't that just drive more 527-type "campaigning"?

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