Don't know if this has been posted before.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/cit...s_passage.html

So, basically, do I understand correctly that Bush can arbitrarily accuse a legal non-citizen he doesn't like of being an "enemy combatant" and throw him into a secret prison where he will be "aggressively interrogated" forever?

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

This is one of the most shameful laws ever passed in America. If you're really for the troops, than there is no way you can say that you are for this bill. Some on the right are trying to say that if you opposed this bill today, than that means you're for the terrorists. That is such a load of crap! What this bill says, effectively, is, if you're the enemy and you capture an American citizen, you can do with them as you choose.

There are still today hundreds of people imprisoned by the United States who need to be tried or set free. Arbitrarily rounding up people and doing with them as you please and then telling your nation, hey, just trust what we are doing is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But since America still can't see past it's own nose, it seems like you are all duped into believing that this bill will somehow make things better when in the long run it makes things very problematic for our troops. What happened today, I think, was very unpatriotic since it strips away rights for our soldiers who pay the ultimate sacrifice.

Worst day ever in American politics! Black day in American history books. This is the worst ever. How shameful. A really, really sad day in America.

Finally, america has the balls to legalize torture. I hope they stop with this "We haven't lied, we just didn't know it better" bullshit, as well. I can only speak for myself, but having been on the street against war on several occasions, if my gouvernment would decide to legalize torture - I already would be on the street again, throwing stones. Together with the other 90 million germans who value human rights.

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"I think that gay marriage should be allowed."
- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign."
- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

The straight talk express. You gotta love it.

Dude, lots of Americans value human rights. This sucks. You have no idea how much this sucks for me. I'm losing lots of respect for this country.

SHAME.

And that's about it.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

America, for Crist`s sake, What are you doing?


I don`t think for one moment, that this is telling the thruth of the USA.


Jen

This is disgusting!

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"Bring the boys back home!"--Pink Floyd

NFA JJG 42-95

Free People/Free Markets

Following the Path of the Beam

This is a grave, grave mistake.

The rights of due process and habeas corpus have been cornerstones of our system of jurisprudence since the beginning. In may ways, this is what sets us apart from many other nations - and it is a key component to the arguments against joining the ICC.

We must not abandon our core beliefs in response to terrorism. When we do that - and this is exactly what this bill will do - then the terrorists win.

Osama Bin Laden wants the US to adopt the stone-age oppression of Sharia Law. This bill doesn't do that, but it sure moves us in the same direction.

As far as torture goes, the bill seems to require compliance with the Geneva Convention. If the administration actually does that, then I have no problem with that provision. But the indefinite detention of anyone without due process of law is odious and antithetical to the American system of justice.

If this legislation is adopted and signed into law - and then survives the court challenges - it will be a dark, dark day in our nation's history IMHO.

We are at imminent risk of becoming what we beheld.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

I could cry. Our proud country is being destroyed from within.

Well said - I completely agree. It kind of reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm in a way. We go around the globe believing that we have a mandate to topple terrorist and terror sponsoring regimes, and that if we need to adopt their policies in order to do it, then the ends justify the means.

(I resisted the impulse to say it reminded me of Star Wars Episode III in favor of a more erudite reference )

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I called my Senators and they both voted against it. What did your Senators do?

100% against, and I don't just mean myself. ever one of the posters so far responding are saying the same thing. I will be very curious to see how the American public veiws this. our congress has become a facist camp. Come december, I hope the congress reveiws, and overturns these last two bills.

Obviously Bush will sign it But I wonder if either of them will pass muster with the supreme court.

IMO, Every Senator and every Representative who voted for either one should be turned out of office,and/or tried as traitors. as should be BUSH.

Star Wars is better, but it's not as quotable.

Like, "He who fights monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."

But one thing: this time it's not silently standing by and not wanting to know, like Congress has been doing so far - this is explicit approval of detentions that noone will know about. This is explicit approval of interrogation techniques that will not be known. And this is explicit approval of secret trials.

And now it's basically over, because the supreme court turned down the president's request to dictate how these secret tribunals should be done. I.e, that the president should not have the authority to disregard ordinary law for no good reason. But now he has been given the explicit approval to do exactly that by Congress. And not in specifics as the SC imagined, which would then translate into actual statuatory law, but with a blank check.

I have to say I don't think it really matters all that much, though. The president has already claimed to be above the law, so..
..Wouldn't it be an idea to go through the state- level on this one? It's been done before, right, to seek some principle decided on by the federal government to be overturned that way? And if nothing else, it might force a confrontation on some real grounds into the supreme court?

I'm certain there will be no problems enforcing and checking up on it inside SECRET prisons.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.