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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006
daisym daisym is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus1124 View Post
And it is utterly idiotic, american-hating nonesense like that which is the very reason any leader of THIS country that ever leaves the disposition of justice over OUR brave troops in the hands of some unaccountable "international" organization should be tried for treason themselves.

The bad haired guy who starves his own people? Routinely slaughters political dissidents? And you have the morally repugnant nerve to suggest that an evil butcher like that has any reasonable justification for wanting nukes because of THIS country.

Waiting for those of you on the left who put yourself forward as patriots to show even a modicum of outrage over this abhorent garbage as some of you have over something as pithy as a quote from a T.V. show.
If you think information contrary to your beliefs is abhorent garbage, then you have serious credibility problems. You are the one who is partisan. The statements you come up with make me think you would have fitted well into the mold of a stormtrooper in nazi germany.

blind devotion and obedience to the state, and a willingness to disregard the humanity of others rather than question the propagada you are taught.

As to your brave troops, while wishing no disrespect to your servicemen, it doesn't take courage to fire on fleeing vehicles.

I am not standing up for NK or Iran, simply saying that if I were in the position where YOUR GOVERNMENT had labelled me as a potential threat, I would arm myself to protect myself against them.

I definitely would not trust your government.

There have been plenty of cases globally where US troops get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist because they are protected from international law. this makes them extremely dangerous to civilians, and also to soldiers retreating, as happened along miles and miles of highway in GWI.

As long as your guys are posturing, the best defence is to ensure strength enough to discourage US troops coming into your country. The best defences are probably nuclear, and a well armed military.

This means heavy investment in military resources rather than spending money on infrastructure and services for the people.

After looking at the madness of King George over the last 5 years, I'm not so sure KJI is half as mad as he's made out to be.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006
Marcus1124 Marcus1124 is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
daisym
If you think information contrary to your beliefs is abhorent garbage, then you have serious credibility problems. You are the one who is partisan. The statements you come up with make me think you would have fitted well into the mold of a stormtrooper in nazi germany.
No, I am saying that even the suggestion of a legitimate reason for "the bad haired guy" to be developing nuclear weapons because the United States doesn't trust well established american-hating international bodies to hand down their view of justice on our troops is.

Quote:
daisym
blind devotion and obedience to the state, and a willingness to disregard the humanity of others rather than question the propagada you are taught.
You mean like blindly taking the word of a coroner that something you have no substantial information about yourself as authoritative...rather than giving the benefit of the doubt to people putting their lives on the line?

Quote:
daisym
As to your brave troops, while wishing no disrespect to your servicemen, it doesn't take courage to fire on fleeing vehicles.
No, but it takes a hell of alot just to BE THERE in the first place!

Quote:
daisym
I am not standing up for NK or Iran, simply saying that if I were in the position where YOUR GOVERNMENT had labelled me as a potential threat, I would arm myself to protect myself against them.
Propter Hoc ergo Post Hoc. This ignores the reality that the REASON they were identified as a potential threat was BECAUSE they were trying to get nuclear weapons. That's like saying it is perfectly understandable why the bank robber doesn't want to put his gun down once the SWAT team arrives and has guns pointed at him. The fact of the matter is that the holding of the gun RESULTED IN and not FROM the arrival of the SWAT team.

Quote:
daisym
I definitely would not trust your government.
I don't "trust" any government, but I certainly DISTRUST governments other than my own far more.

Quote:
daisym
There have been plenty of cases globally where US troops get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist because they are protected from international law. this makes them extremely dangerous to civilians, and also to soldiers retreating, as happened along miles and miles of highway in GWI.

Few and far between. The overwhelming majority of U.S. servicemen and women who commit crimes are released to the authorities of that jurisdiction...save for those whose guarantees of due process are so utterly non-existent as to be unnacceptable for those who would volunteer for our armed forces.

Quote:
daisym
As long as your guys are posturing, the best defence is to ensure strength enough to discourage US troops coming into your country. The best defences are probably nuclear, and a well armed military.

This means heavy investment in military resources rather than spending money on infrastructure and services for the people.

After looking at the madness of King George over the last 5 years, I'm not so sure KJI is half as mad as he's made out to be.
Utterly oblivious. I suspose you felt the Soviets where merely reacting to U.S. postering during the cold war, didn't you? That if only we had disarmed first, the Soviet's would have seen that we didn't mean them any harm and would have disarmed as well. It was childishly naive way of viewing evil regimes then, and it is even more so now.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006
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muspell muspell is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
This inquest, to me, represents a similar manner of "justice" - only one side of the matter presented, guilt assigned without trial, etc.
Hm. What a curious statement to make, since you've already been informed there won't be a trial under international law. Which, of course, you already knew on beforehand. And I would bet good money there won't be a trial under US law either. And yet, you are arguing for justice? Would you then join me in calling for a trial?
Quote:
As for indefinite detention, did you know the ICC charter permits that as well?
No, it's just under US law it's legally permissable to stall a proceeding indefinitely for no reason. It's also only under US law it's almost encouraged to change the alleged crime during the trial, as well as bring alternate defenses to alternate prosecutions in order to have your sentence reduced. However, none of this is allowed under US military law, which is a very stringent process that does not take into account more than a specific kind of crime, etc.

And this, as if you did not know, is the reason why US soliders will not be prosecuted for murder under the courts martial system in cases such as these. That is, in favour of an inquest that simply seeks to determine whether the ROE was followed. Such a curious system of "justice", isn't it. Reliable, of course, but curious nonetheless.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006
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goober goober is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

If American troops are shooting up minivans full of civilians, they should be investigated and tried by the US legal system, if the US legal system ignores this , the UK should pull out of Iraq, they are going to anyway, the last helicopter out of the Green Zone will be American just like Vietnam.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006
Slon Slon is online now
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Was the van marked as that of the news group?
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
After having seen the war on Arab television in 2003, it doesn't surprise me that something like this is coming out now.
Really? Gee, the rest of us are beside ourselves.
Islamic television (Controlled by Saddam in 2003.) giving us bad press- who‘d a thunk.
Arab television != Islamic television != Iraqi television
And Michel Moore television.
Liberal groups in America had 13,000 tapes of Mooron 911 translated to Arabic and sent to there television channels where it was played up to 7 times a day…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
It has long been stated that US troops went in there unprepared and without an adequate understanding of the environment they were going in to, which is why incidents such as these occur.
It’s who and why the stating occurred that is at issue. This is much more a sever crime then Solders returning fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarOnIgnorance View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
This is more a reflection on the way the US conducted the war, than on the troops ... or maybe not
Yea, ya gotta be careful on those battle fields during a war when your interviewing the enemy….
Your running with something inappropriate happening. This is not on any news program or non-liberal website. The van was fleeing the area carrying insurgents that opened fire on U.S. troops. C’mon.
The van was property of ITN's crew, and was here used as a makeshift ambulance for Mr. Lloyd. It was driving away from where the engagement was. The inquest showed that the fire on it was initiated by US tanks. If the operators of these tanks had a different story to tell, they should have shown up at the inquest.
I don’t care if it was the freaking Oscar Myer wiener mobile. It was during a gun battle where the enemy was in a fire fight with our troops. They all jumped in the van and tried to get away. The inquest wasn’t real. The dumbass was hit by both Iraqi and American fire while covering the battle from the enemies side.
There are no sites stating other then it being a British inquest. An inquest into a war occurrence without mentioning which group did it suggests some anti-war organization of moonbat credibility. The story is spam from some anti-American group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
I think there is something seriously wrong with events like this occurring - but its nothing to what the Iraqis suffered at the hands of the invaders.
Oh!!! It’s spam. Never mind…
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
Hank's Avatar
Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno View Post
If this proves to be the truth, then the men responsible should be held responsible.
Truth died along with God in 1969 on the front page of the New York Times.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisym View Post
here's the bbc report:

it appears that the vehicle in which Lloyd (and perhaps the others) was killed was a civilian vehicle, driving AWAY from the troops.

how can this be justified?
What is it trying to be planted here?
We saw a British journalist and started firing at him??? The troops were cowards and just shot at everything moving???
Has this appalling hate and lying toward America become so normalized to people that we miss the magnitude of what it is you are doing.
I’m sorry, but there are people in the world of intellectual level that could believe these propagations. You people are causing deaths, extending the war and creating chaos throughout the world with these lies.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus1124 View Post
Here's a question, how does a Coroner establish that someone was "unlawfully" killed? His declaration that "I have no doubt it was an unlawful act of fire on the minibus." is a legal conclusion for which his medical training hardly gives him any special insight into.

It's like the left lapping up every the drivel of every "professor" who says anything they like to hear, from global weather patterns to constitutional law, even if it is from a professor of mideaval poetry!
Touché…
(Watch them come back and say it’s a magical coroner…)
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Hank Hank is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lungfish View Post
~Snip~ The military is trained to kill people. The army is intended for use in conventional warfare, when you're supposed to kill as many of the bad guy as possible. There's a good reason why we don't allow the military to be used as a police force in the US and haven't since the civil war.
We've beaten the generals that remained loyal to Saddam, and we invaded the hell out of the place. We won the war, and now we are dealing with the aftermath. The number one thing people in Iraq want is for US troops to leave.
Your close to the real agenda behind theses movements.
It’s over, president Bush had stopped Al Quada and Iraq’s efforts making the world safer again. It was time to leave.
Liberals can’t allow that type of information getting to the people of the world. There keeping enemy recruitment lines open and U.S. image down with propaganda campaigns for the soul propose of political empowerment of there ideology. There gonna be in for surprise number three in November. (But but, the news said- )
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Ash Ash is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Truth died along with God in 1969 on the front page of the New York Times.
Seems rather dismal, care to expound. You have certianly piqued my interest...
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
Hank's Avatar
Hank Hank is offline
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Bob (No, not like in the water. It's my name.)

 
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Truth died along with God in 1969 on the front page of the New York Times.
Seems rather dismal, care to expound. You have certianly piqued my interest...
Indeed: http://www.macgregorministries.org/j...reatdisap.html

(For something of historical value it sure was hard to find…)
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Meridious Meridious is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Coroners do not have the ability to declare anyone guilty of a crime...much less declare what the motive was.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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muspell muspell is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

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Originally Posted by Meridious View Post
Coroners do not have the ability to declare anyone guilty of a crime...much less declare what the motive was.
Would you look at that. Another conservative funnymentalist who will join me in calling for a trial.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006
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Meridious Meridious is offline
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Re: Coroner finds US troops guilty of killing journalist

Any action involving military fire and civilians that cannot possibly be the results of collateral damage should be investigated fully and a trial conducted if necessary. This incident is not as if a drone dropped a weapon on a target and civilian casualties resulted as collateral damage.

Burying firefights or the evnts leading to firing upon civilians in close-contact is detrimental to the reputation of our soldiers. Nothing good can come of it.

The reputation of the soldiers on the ground AS A WHOLE are at stake constantly.

It should be out in the open unless its disclosure is a matter of national security...as in the information puts our country at a tangible risk.
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