http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/6063386.stm

I think this article speaks for itself. This makes me extremely sad. What kind of world are we that so many of us approve of abriding basic human rights.

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

I already posted this one on another thread, Donkey, although my take was a little different:

support for torture

My apologies, I didn't see that thread.

This one can be gotten rid of now I suppose.

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

Well, republicans are generally very pro-torture and anti-rights, so this is not very surprising. What was Bush's approval rating? In the 30s? One third, perhaps?

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Approval.htm

I was surprised there were so many who supported "some torture".

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I was so damn surprised so many appossed it! In another poll (can't cite who it was by) almost half of the british public said that torture was justifiable in extreme circumstances, which it obviously is, and a plurailtity of Americans said it was fine too. Damn BBC viewers probably thought otherwise of course. Torture is something that is neccessary and is a great tool at the disposal of those who are fighting terrorism.

torture is never justifiable.

the idea that it is even useful is total bullshit. the 'evidence' obtained pre the Iraq war through torture proved to be false, which is pretty normal.

If you had ever dealt with victims of torture and trauma, or heard them interviewed, you would be aware that peoples responses to torture fall into several categories:

1. you tell your torturer what you think they want to hear to make the torture stop. this is usually not reliable information. often it is a response to hints the torturers have been dropping about what they want - including names of people they would like to see implicated.

2. you tell your torturer nothing, because your 'cause' or your 'faith' gives you strength. Sometimes it is your hatred of the torturer, and your will not to be defeated increases your capacity to endure.

3. you tell your torturer nothing because you do not want others to suffer.

sometimes its a combination of all three.

If you want to get information out of someone, the best way is to threaten harm to their loved ones - especially their children, although again I would suggest the information gained - if responding to hints - will also be unreliable.

torturing the individual has no benefit for acquiring useable information ... although it is great for netting a lot of additional innocents, as the witchhunts of Europe and the activities of the KGB in Stalinist Russia - as two examples - have shown.

Torture is something sick twisted individuals get excited about - and it can also cause psychological damage to the perpetrator.

decent people - unless they are brainwashed - would give it a wide berth.

That is interesting but democratic people have a solution about people who are immune to torture: torturing their relatives before their eyes. It might help.
Next step to follow up.

well, I know this happens in some places where democracy has broken down .... I hope it would not be condoned by the US ... but in all honesty its a slippery slope - and perhaps this step may be easier to take once torture is more tolerable to the masses.

A woman being gang raped and mutilated in front of her teenage sons can work wonders for them breaking down and forcing them to give information about their neighbours.

and its something they won't get over in a hurry, either ... either what they have witnessed, or the guilt of betraying innocent people.

Exactly daisym. Exactly.

It's also a great tool for those who engage in terrorism. Sometimes you have to fight terrorism by acting like a terrorist, right?

Iraqis, meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

If you review the whole poll it seems the US figures are not so far off the world average. That's doubly scary, though no surprises in the countries with the highest torture approval rates (Israel, Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, etc).

I am opposed to torture. I do not beleive that using a psychological technique like sleep deprivation is torture. Cutting off fingers, electroshocking someones genitals etc.. I am opposed to. So Yes, I am against torture.

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"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

And poof - the entire balancing in the poll towards the "some torture" was thrown out of the window.

You are kidding, right? I find it humorous that you call yourself a federalist.

Ben

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To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

President Theodore Roosevelt
1918