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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2006
ViolaLee ViolaLee is offline
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Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Blair wants diplomacy and talks. Bush wants ultimatums and threats. Have I mentioned that I think Bush is a horrible leader?

Quote:
Blair - we must work with 'Axis of Evil' states
By Philip Webster in London and Tom Baldwin is Washington

The first cracks in the united front over Iraq between Tony Blair and President Bush appeared last night as the Prime Minister offered Iran and Syria the prospect of dialogue over the future of Iraq and the Middle East.

Mr Blair said there could be a new “partnership” with Iran if it stopped supporting terrorism in Iraq and gave up its nuclear ambitions. Syria and Iran could choose partnership or isolation, he said.

The Prime Minister tried to exploit moves in Washington to rethink strategy on Iraq by holding out the prospect of engagement with two countries once dubbed by President Bush as part of the “axis of evil”. For the first time he also explicitly ruled out military action against Iran.
Quote:
Bush rejects calls to talk with Tehran
By Brian Knowlton / International Herald TribunePublished: November 13, 2006

WASHINGTON: President George W. Bush on Monday rejected new calls for direct talks with the Iranian government on the crisis in Iraq or other matters, saying that if Tehran wanted direct negotiations it must first halt its uranium enrichment activities. If it does not, he said, it should face economic isolation.

The president's comments, made after an Oval Office meeting with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel, marked no new policy but amounted to a clear rejection of a nuanced call earlier in London by the British prime minister, Tony Blair, for possible U.S. talks with both Iran and Syria.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2006
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MattLarson MattLarson is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
Blair wants diplomacy and talks. Bush wants ultimatums and threats. Have I mentioned that I think Bush is a horrible leader?
Only about 6,434,234,961 times!

I wonder how the new democratically controlled house and senate will fix this?

Matt
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2006
Dormouse Dormouse is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Blair - we must work with 'Axis of Evil' states
By Philip Webster in London and Tom Baldwin is Washington

The first cracks in the united front over Iraq between Tony Blair and President Bush appeared last night as the Prime Minister offered Iran and Syria the prospect of dialogue over the future of Iraq and the Middle East.
The selective memories of lightweight journalists are a bane on Western Civilisation!

Bush and Blair had fundamental differences about the justification of the invasion of Iraq since day one. Bush didn't give a crap and the Bush policy was the one that is in play to this day.

This line of approach is integral and consistent to Blair's original position regarding the invasion of Iraq (the viewpoint ignored by Bush). It is to be noted that many (non-American) liberals were quite happy to support Blair's arguments for the invasion of Iraq (but NOT Bush's reasons).
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Old 11-13-2006
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Well first problem this is published by the Times...not much else needs to be said other than Bush like it or not is right...tell me again how successful itis to make deals with radical governments?
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Old 11-13-2006
Dormouse Dormouse is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson
I wonder how the new democratically controlled house and senate will fix this?

Matt
Given that the recommendation that the USA ought to formally meet with Iran has been on the table for many, many years - recommended by a wide variety of policy papers and think-tank proposals - including many on the 'rightwing' side and including James Baker's "Iraq Study Group", I think it is very likely to happen in the near future. Indeed, it is the ONLY possible path available for possible resolution of the Iraqi debacle.

It is interesting to note that in US foreign policy circles, it is explicitely ONLY the Bush-Cheney-Rice-neocon faction that has disparaged the value of engaging with Iran directly.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2006
Dormouse Dormouse is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem View Post
Well first problem this is published by the Times...not much else needs to be said other than Bush like it or not is right...tell me again how successful itis to make deals with radical governments?
Like Lybia for example?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2006
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

We already have historical, anecdotal evidence that isolationism doesn't work very well in the Middle East. Why would we want to repeat that mistake?
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Old 11-13-2006
ViolaLee ViolaLee is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
Only about 6,434,234,961 times!

I wonder how the new democratically controlled house and senate will fix this?

Matt
Can the democratically controlled congress force Bush to talk peace to our enemies?
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Old 11-14-2006
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jotathought jotathought is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
Can the democratically controlled congress force Bush to talk peace to our enemies?
How is 'talking peace' to our enemies going to solve anything -- especially in the Middle East? Do you think that waving white flags is going to resolve things?
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Old 11-14-2006
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muspell muspell is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Michael View Post
Given that the recommendation that the USA ought to formally meet with Iran has been on the table for many, many years - recommended by a wide variety of policy papers and think-tank proposals - including many on the 'rightwing' side and including James Baker's "Iraq Study Group", I think it is very likely to happen in the near future.
I'm not too sure about that. I'm just reminded of how the Bush- administration has managed to stall any of these things for years already. "Just wait until after the election". Take the 911- recommendations, for instance. Or the Senate Intelligence report. No, I think this is another of those stunts by the Bush- administration to speak loudly about something for a while, and then do nothing and continue to stay the course.

We've heard the same thing earlier about Iran, as you say. But also Iraq, Libya at first, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, Pakistan and North Korea in particular - name anything the cronies at the state- department have been doing for the last six years, and you find the same approach - talk about change, and then fail to do anything but simply not speaking to evil, staying the course, and expecting change in their "evil ways", to quote George himself. But Ghadaffi did play them on this, and gave up just about nothing in exchange for good graces with Washington. And it actually has been lauded by the Bush- administration as the one thing that did actually work with their policy, for instance. Their shills routinely defend that as a great success, too. Something in the line of how great the Lebanese democracy was.. at least for a while.

So it's not like this is anything new..
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2006
Lurker Lurker is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Michael View Post
The selective memories of lightweight journalists are a bane on Western Civilisation!

Bush and Blair had fundamental differences about the justification of the invasion of Iraq since day one. Bush didn't give a crap and the Bush policy was the one that is in play to this day.

This line of approach is integral and consistent to Blair's original position regarding the invasion of Iraq (the viewpoint ignored by Bush). It is to be noted that many (non-American) liberals were quite happy to support Blair's arguments for the invasion of Iraq (but NOT Bush's reasons).
I always assumed the reasons for the same...

Have a link for Blairs reasons? I'd really like to read them...
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2006
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Rakkasan Rakkasan is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha View Post
Can the democratically controlled congress force Bush to talk peace to our enemies?
cite a time that "talking peace" has actually worked sam
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2006
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

What about a Middle East Union?

Since the Arab League specifically excludes Israel as a deliberative participant, a more ideal scenario would involve the creation of a Middle East Union, with all member states deciding what is best for the region.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2006
ViolaLee ViolaLee is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by jotathought View Post
How is 'talking peace' to our enemies going to solve anything -- especially in the Middle East? Do you think that waving white flags is going to resolve things?
Peace does not equal surrender. Talking peace is coming to a mutual understand in order to stop the killing.

Quote:
Moshe Dayan:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Quote:
Martin Luther King, Jr.:
True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice.
Quote:
Martin Luther King, Jr.:
One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means.
Quote:
Indira Gandhi:
You can't shake hands with a clenched fist.
Quote:
Jimi Hendrix:
When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2006
ViolaLee ViolaLee is offline
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Re: Cracks in united front between Bush and Blair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
cite a time that "talking peace" has actually worked sam
Every day that war does not break out are times when talking peace has worked. Those times just aren't as memorable as the times when wars are started.
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