For the facts, see:

American Airlines Flight 77 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this includes the real security camera video information.

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Analyst, while I don't disagree with you that 11/9 was an inside job, on what scale is unclear, you appear to contradict yourself on this issue.

Personally, I do believe that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. You, clearly, do not. However, while claiming that no plane hit the Pentagon, you subsequently imply that a black box was recovered from said flight.

How can you reconcile this?

I know it has to go to the heart of the Bush family, this goes all the way to Bush Sr.

You have to understand that Bush Sr. practically owns the CIA and still to this day gets a daily brief that every President since him gets as well. He is the only person other than the current President to get this brief.

Another Bush family member was owner of the security company for the towers.

Understand that he is going based on their claim. You shouldn't focus on his words, you should focus on the crux of the argument.

He is saying it in such a way based on their claim and he is just saying that release of this supposed recoved box would answer many questions. That is the crux of the post. He wants the answers to questions that are on many Americans mind, but the real annoyance is why the government is so dynamically unwilling to cooperate with the American people.

This video wasn't just given to the American people, it was fought for under the Freedom Information Act and there are still just about 100 more videos that they want disclosed. Why the government doesn't do that freely should be on everyone's mind.

Consider how many times we've seen the planes hit the towers. Why is the Pentagon crash, that had 4 times the cameras pointing at it than the initial crash at the towers, such a mystery and why hasn't the video of the plane crashing into the plane not disclosed?

How many more explosions do you guys need to see to understand that an explosion doesn't substitute seeing an actual gigantic airline commerical jet barrelling towards the Pentagon?

If there was truely a plane that size hitting the pentagon, you are going to see it on the video.

"There goes the plane, there it goes into the Pentagon, there's the explosion... "

Case Closed, right?

But what we have is -

"There's a small tiny blur, there's an explosion... "

If a plane hit the Pentagon we would be speaking about it in terms I illustrated and not the latter. Get real people, a plane did not hit the Pentagon. I'm convinced it was a missile or a very small military jet packed with ordinance... but a commercial jet... NO WAY! That should have been put to rest a long time ago if indeed a plane that size hit it.

There are two scholars - plane or not. This is a ridiculous situation in a modern country. Somebody should know. The 911 was a crime! Where is the crime investigation. Nobody has officially been accused for this crime. It seems that the government is doing everything to avoid crime investigation and to hide the facts.

So called conspiracy theoretics have also two scholars - plane or no plane. I must say that I don't know. If I would be an US citizen, I would insist proper information. However, the main question is who was behind this, why it was possible and what were the motives - so far this crime has been used as an excuse to attack independent countries as Afghanistan and Iraq ... and some others are coming. Therefore, the investigation has also international interests as the justification of war actions/crimes are in question.

How anyone can draw conclusions based on the video in the first post is beyond me. Videos of Bigfoot are clearer than that one.

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Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
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Hmm...neither one of you answered the question I posed you regarding your reasoning on the matter of Flight 77.

You maintain that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon, but then you state that releasing the flight data from Flight 77 will aid investigations and provide answers.

My question to you is this: if no plane hit the Pentagon, as you assert, how can the flight data be released? There would be no flight data had there been no plane. Or were the recovered black boxes planted?

Don't get me wrong here. Like I said before, I do believe that 11/9 was an inside job. I don't, however, believe that anything other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

I think that this thread alone demonstrates the purpose of the Pentagon attack, other than being part of the day's series of increasingly shocking assaults : to misdirect and cause division, particularly amongst conspiracy theorists.

I would not be surprised at all if, at some future point, a video clearly showing Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon is released.

>Zeus: My question to you is this: if no plane hit the Pentagon, as you assert, how can the flight data be released?

OK, if there was Flight 77 there should be information about the flight in the black boxes - why this is not released (something has been released, but the data is a bit strange). The discussions with flight control should be released.

The problem was that to those who organized the 911 crime it was easier to operate with separate planes with special technology - not commercial planes. Therefore, it may have been easier to put the passengers of four flights to two (maybe even one) plane and shoot it down. And at the same time operate with special planes which were then said to be the "hi-jacked" commercial planes. There are experts who study the routes of the planes which are actually very strange (two planes have been flying one below another, etc - and there were about 20 artificial planes on the radar screens as there were Dick Cheney's war games at the same time). The technical implementation of the whole crime is extremely sophisticated.

I don't know if there was a plane or not hitting Pentagon - I am just 100 % sure that CIA knows it well ... and knew it long before 911.

If, as you say, you do not know, then why do you keep presenting your theory as though it were established fact?

Matt

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Hence the reason why we are asking for it's release. You're trying to read to much into our words when you should be focused on the government's actions.

This line of questioning isn't something that says we are contradicting ourselves. This line of questioning is saying - 'Look, we understand you are saying that Flight 77 hit the pentagon and so far all we have is your word that this is true. We would like the flight recorder so we can mesh hard data with your - current - assertion. Because right now that is what it is. We are simply taking the government's word that this is what happened when they can easily prove it with video evidence that would have clearly caught the commercial plane hitting the Pentagon that won't look obscure, fuzzy, blurry, or the wrong angle. The release of the flight recorder would also reveal lots of things as well, which is what we want.

Why won't the government show you? That is the question you have to be asking.

And your phrasing is exactly right - you do have to believe that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon because you don't know otherwise than the story the government asked you to believe without evidence. This is line questioning is asking for that evidence that people are fighting for. People are fighting with the government to release the evidence - you need to sort that out.

You are focusing your eye on conspiracy theorist that will lead you no where because conspiracy theorists are not central to this event. You need to focus on the event. Currently, you need to understand that there is division between the American people and the government and that's where your concern should be. The people of America are fighting with the government to release evidence that would support the official story. You have to ask yourself why we have to fight with the government when they can easily cooperate and shut us up. Wouldn't that make all the conspiracy haters happy as well?

Here's to hoping that what you believe will come true when the government decides to stop telling you what happened and instead just to give you the evidence to decide yourself ... ? Yes?

Is there anybody who would know? And I don't accept an evidence provided by the biggest propaganda office in the world - the CIA. Somebody should have evidence! I only accept real evidence - so far I fear the worst.

More like so you invent the worst.

You have zero evidence - as you just said - to prove your "theories". Your claim is that because there is no evidence, your version must be the right one.

It's folly.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

If the plane was flying at 400 MPH, that works out to 587 feet per second.
At 500 MPH, its 733 feet per second.

Seems reasonable to me that the security cam only captured a small part of the picture.

Kramer

You would also need to know things like; direction the camera is pointing, directions the plane is traveling, position of the point of impact at the pentagon relative to the camera, obstructions between the camera and point of impact, speed at which the camera is recording etc etc.

Until the conspiracy nuts start providing actual data they condemn themselves to sounding like nothing more then the crazies they are.

You mean you ask conspiracy theorist to employ science while you ask none from the 9/11 Commission Report.

These demands... why do you not ask the government the same thing?

We're talking about a commercial jet, not a frisbee. It's kinda hard for a video camera NOT capture a commerical jet plane if it's in its path.