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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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goober goober is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
What the citizens can't afford is taxes that go to paying others debt off.......Watch TV and read spam email, what do you see ? Nothing but ads saying get free money, credit card debt and many more……The problems is that OUR taxes go to pay for these things..
I’m sure that everyone here knows of at least one person who is a repeat credit card abuser, repeat bankruptcy abuser and etc……All of which gets paid down by the government “by” our tax dollars.
Tax dollars don't pay off bankruptcies, they pay for government spending.
The lender takes the hit in a bankruptcy.
Tax pays for things like an enormously over sized, expensive and inefficient military, a huge "fence" along a border that addresses the problem of illegal immigration in a symbolic manner, tax dollars go to pay off the debt that Reagan racked up buying useless weapons systems like the B-1 bomber from his loyal campaign contributors, (yes, we haven't paid for the Reagan military buildup yet, we just pay the interest on the debt).
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"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by IronMaiden27 View Post
I agree, but welfare isn't useless spending.
The 50 years of the failure of welfare programs would seem to contradict that. When are we going to admit failure and withdrawl from the war on poverty? I think the govt is misleasing us on the war.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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SamInTheSouth SamInTheSouth is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMaiden27 View Post
'Zactly. The wealthy and large business owners WANT you to believe that raising wages will cause inflation. The truth is, that if corporations sacrafice a very miniscule profit for higer wages, people would SPEND more and the market would boom. There would BE no need to increase prices. It would even out in the end.
Businesses aren't in business to give you a job or pay you a wage. They are there to make a profit, period. You deserve to be paid what the market dictates your skills are worth. It is not based on the fact that you think you deserve a high wage. It does not and cannot work the way and that is why in states that try to force the market to do things it can't, like Massachusetts, you have over inflated costs of doing business and a bad environment for business and industry.

Quote:
In Massachusetts recently, housing prices have been plummeting because people simply cannot afford the excessive prices here. The real estate market is suffering, due to inflation, caused by the rich who control the market by buying overpriced real estate.
I don't know where you got this idea from, but there is no truth to it whatsoever. There are several factors that effect real estate prices. If house prices are going down it's because there are more houses for sale than there are buyers. It has nothing to do with rich people buying overpriced real estate. Your prices are excessive in your state because Massachusetts taxes you out the wazoo on just about everything. Your cost of living is also higher because your state government does not spend responsibly, doles out too much money on socialist programs, and is in bed with union labor interests. All of this has radically driven up the cost of doing business in your state, hence higher operating expenses and higher prices and/or taxes passed on to the residents.

Massachusetts has the sixth highest tax burden of the 50 states.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
One of the first things the Democrats will have to do is pass the budget that this Congress just didn't have time for with their hectic 103 day work year, that's the equivalent to over twenty weeks of work..........
In order to speed up the process, they have will eliminate thousands of pork barrel projects, saving the taxpayers billions. Under the watchful eyes of the GOP, pork barrel spending exploded, with nearly ten times as many earmarks as when the Democrats last held the House gavel, well, all that's over now.
BREITBART.COM - Dems to Wipe Out Pet Projects in Bills
Your idealistic belief in the Dems is moving - and absurd. Trusting the Dems with spending is like trusting the mice with the cheese. They wrote the book on spending - and came close to destroying the US economy from the late 60s through the early 80s. They have never accepted responsibility for their out-of-control behavior, and a worshipful media never held them responsible either. Shameless indeed.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

it was just a matter of time before die hard haters

would start posting these"fantasy threads" that now that the "DC comics crew" has taken over the hill

that everything is "PERFECT" again
cant wait to read the threads when the presidency changes to dem

wow .........it will be commical
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
Tax dollars don't pay off bankruptcies, they pay for government spending.
The lender takes the hit in a bankruptcy.
Are you positive ?
I thought that the government paid for some or most of it.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
What the citizens can't afford is taxes that go to paying others debt off.......Watch TV and read spam email, what do you see ? Nothing but ads saying get free money, credit card debt and many more……The problems is that OUR taxes go to pay for these things..
I’m sure that everyone here knows of at least one person who is a repeat credit card abuser, repeat bankruptcy abuser and etc……All of which gets paid down by the government “by” our tax dollars.
That's part of the problem, yes. Another problem is the billions spent on foolish endeavors like the Iraq War. And what do we have to show for it? Thousands of our soldiers dead, many more maimed and on free healthcare, total instability and civil war in Iraq, and and increased level of terror globally. Welfare may be bad, but it never caused the problems caused by this war. If Bush wanted to spend money to create problems for the US, he could have stolen a few billion in public funds and used it to kill 1.5 thousand soldiers with nerve gas while destroying a few billion dollars of expensive US military equipment. It would have technically been money better-spent, relative to the Iraq War anyway. Then there is this little gem:

CNN.com - Audit: U.S. lost track of $9 billion in Iraq funds - Jan 30, 2005

It's pretty clear that the government is collecting WAY too much money. If they can wipe their asses with billions of dollars as if it were nothing, then clearly there is too much money in government hands, not to mention criminal incompetence that would get many others that are reponsible for monetary transactions (CEOs/CFOs) fired and perhaps jailed for life. Some people still think Bush is doing a great job, though, when most people couldn't do that bad of a job even if they trained to fail (and even if they had the ability to turn any matter to shit upon touching it).
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Last edited by Slon; 12-18-2006 at 08:21 PM.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMaiden27 View Post
What is even more hurtful is what would happen to the economy if we cut out welfare. Poverty hurts the economy and also creates disease and more problems than you'll want to think about - why do you think the government has welfare to begin with? Back in days, it was supposed to be created as a temporary safety net, however welfare only lasts 5 years and in most cases you must have a job to collect if you are to re-apply.
Logical reasoning/economics tells you that welfare will not work (and does not work) because it rewards laziness. It is the opposite of encouraging work because you end up not receiving benefits if you do hold a good job. Many people decide that it is better to get paid to do nothing then get paid to do something, which logically makes sense. Obviously, capable people will still get jobs if they can easily hold a job that allows them to be rich. However, lower class people end up with a choice that I mentioned above, work or don't work: it makes no difference in the amount you receive. Many end up not working and becoming leeches. That is the fundamental reason why the fundamental idea of socialism breaks down in a society such as our own. And that is why welfare is generally a bad idea. Simply put, it creates less total product because you end up with less people working.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
The 50 years of the failure of welfare programs would seem to contradict that. When are we going to admit failure and withdrawl from the war on poverty? I think the govt is misleasing us on the war.
Precisely. Welfare and the war in Iraq are total failures and need to be cut. Another total failure that also harms the US: the war on drugs. All of those are pretty much like cutting off a gangrenous foot with necrosis. You lost it. Admit it and cut it off before it spreads above the knee. Once it's dead, it's dead and can only get worse.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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goober goober is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by proUSA View Post
Are you positive ?
I thought that the government paid for some or most of it.
In bankruptcy, you take what you have, divide among the people you owe, and you owe no more. If you owe ten times more than you have, you pay off your debts 10 cents on the dollar, and the lender has to write off the rest.
The government gets less in tax from the lender, because the writeoff comes off his profits, but that's it.
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Logical reasoning/economics tells you that welfare will not work (and does not work) because it rewards laziness. It is the opposite of encouraging work because you end up not receiving benefits if you do hold a good job. Many people decide that it is better to get paid to do nothing then get paid to do something, which logically makes sense. Obviously, capable people will still get jobs if they can easily hold a job that allows them to be rich. However, lower class people end up with a choice that I mentioned above, work or don't work: it makes no difference in the amount you receive. Many end up not working and becoming leeches. That is the fundamental reason why the fundamental idea of socialism breaks down in a society such as our own. And that is why welfare is generally a bad idea. Simply put, it creates less total product because you end up with less people working.
Most of the people on welfare are children, do you think if we don't feed them it will make them productive?

There are people who can't work, and don't have enough money to buy food, medical care and a place to live, hence we have welfare.
We have welfare and social security and unemployment because Capitalism is as brutal as communism.
Companies used to use 6 year old children in the coal mines because it was cheaper, you could dig smaller tunnels, if they got crippled on the job, you paid them through the end of the day, and had someone carry them home, and it was their problem what they were going to do tomorrow.
Capitalism is 300 people dying in a workplace fire because there are no fire escapes (too much money).
So we don't have pure Capitalism, and it's not communism, it's what's called a "New Deal".
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
Most of the people on welfare are children, do you think if we don't feed them it will make them productive?
Yes, just as long as we get rid of laws that prevent those children from working when they want to work. But you have a point. They are more or less between a rock and hard place when laws are in place that keep them from earning money.
Quote:
There are people who can't work, and don't have enough money to buy food, medical care and a place to live, hence we have welfare.
Not being able to work is no excuse. If I am too incompetent to work as a CFO of a huge corporation, I don't get hired and nobody pays me the difference.
Quote:

We have welfare and social security and unemployment because Capitalism is as brutal as communism.
Except capitalism works without having to resort to totalitarianism.
Quote:
Companies used to use 6 year old children in the coal mines because it was cheaper, you could dig smaller tunnels, if they got crippled on the job, you paid them through the end of the day, and had someone carry them home, and it was their problem what they were going to do tomorrow.
If they didn't want to work there, they should have said no. No reason for the government to step in and say no for them as nobody was forcing them to work there. The government is not a good nanny and therefore should not be one.
Quote:

Capitalism is 300 people dying in a workplace fire because there are no fire escapes (too much money).
You forgot to mention that the people CHOSE to work there in the first place.
Quote:
So we don't have pure Capitalism, and it's not communism, it's what's called a "New Deal".
And it is becoming apparent that many of the socialist aspects are failing, as they should, since socialism rarely works in a society where people are not forced to work by a totalitarian regime.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
And it is becoming apparent that many of the socialist aspects are failing, as they should, since socialism rarely works in a society where people are not forced to work by a totalitarian regime.
We had "Pure Capitalism" it ended with a happy time called "The Great Depression". From the if you call moving from the depths of the great depression to where we are now failure, and the Great Depression success, then yes the system has failed.
If it wasn't for the New Deal, the US would be Communist, because that's who was gaining ground after the massive failure of Capitalism.
So now we have regulated markets, regulated workplaces, regulated everything, and it works better than what we had before.
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2006
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by goober View Post
We had "Pure Capitalism" it ended with a happy time called "The Great Depression". From the if you call moving from the depths of the great depression to where we are now failure, and the Great Depression success, then yes the system has failed.
If it wasn't for the New Deal, the US would be Communist, because that's who was gaining ground after the massive failure of Capitalism.
So now we have regulated markets, regulated workplaces, regulated everything, and it works better than what we had before.
Here are some causes of the Great Depression.

Causes of the Great Depression

It looks like the causes were bad investing choices, using loans for investing and high tariffs.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2006
Ironman Jack Ironman Jack is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Democrats cut Billions in Pork

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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Horseshit? Horseshit you say? No, Mr. Varus S. Word, that smell is clearly emanating from you. As are the nocturnal emissions.
I have gotten past the elections. Obviously you have not. Get over it, your team lost ( 30 & 5 ).
Put away your Miss Cleo persona - you have no idea how long the Dems will retain control of the Legislature.
But to delude oneself into thinking that reducing earmarks, pork-barrel spending, or whatever term you wish to use - even if it is only for a 2-year period - won't benefit the Dems : well, it's your funeral.

Who is going to watch KKK Byrd, Sen. from Alaska, Teddy and other Stalinista whores of the dollar and legacies? Screw so-called Dems, they are worthless and had NO problem sending me to S.E. Asia to make LBJ, Rockefeller, Gates Rubber, and others MILLIONS! They created Johnny Coward the 3 times out lying bastard from Mass. Be proud boy, you are among the Party of Traitors & Cowards!!
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