You don't think that's next?

We got phone taps, now mail intercepts. What's next? internment camps.

All this leads up to more and more.

I don't think a LEGAL precedent exists that allows this and if it did, I am sure it would be struck down, when challenged…..again, the system has to be allowed to work....IF we were to put Muslims into internment camps I am sure the courts would put paid to this….and frankly, imho, ..it was the greatest single rights violation we ever perpetrated....but then again I was not there…the fears run amok in the country at the time, makes this hard to judge 70 years later…..though with 20-20 hindsight its easy to judge now....back then the fear was real....was it right no, but we cannot judge this rightly from here....

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I am sure folks said in 1862 that the suspension of habeas corpus was the end of us all....but we survived and it was rescinded ..I happen to have faith in the gov. and the people to right the boat when it goes to far to one side...but as I said, we were not there and did not live the fears and circumstances that they did….

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

And history proves the fear was unjustified. I seems that you've read a history book or two - what's wrong with learning from them?

The internment camps never proved to help America survive but it still is a national embaressment. You say repeat history, correct?

So was what FDR did legal back then? I find it hard to believe that no laws changed since WW2. Furthermore, yes, it is alright to judge cowards who were willing to cede power to the government because they started shitting their pants.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Learning from it and living it are 2 different things..if everyone governed themselves by what happened in the past they would have to do so GOOD, BAD or Indifferent,....yes the fear may not have been justified this far away, but they weren't standing far away, they were on top it...tragic as it was….I find it hard to gain say them…..

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

According to Alexander Hamilton and James Madison in Federalist #51:
(bold mine) So yes they supposed exactly what I said they did.
That all rulers will abuse their subjects at any time the potential reward to them is greater than the consequences.

Our constitution gives no sweeping powers to the executive. Instead it enumerates specific and limited powers for government, lays out broad freedoms for the people, and reserves any powers not specifically granted the government to them.
You obviously wish the reverse was true and there are places in the world where it is so. But I hope it will never be here.

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A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

The verdict IS in. The white house is appealing the verdict. The blanket surveillance with no oversight is, in and of itself, "without cause".

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A nation of slaves is always prepared to applaud the clemency of their master who, in the abuse of absolute power, does not proceed to the utmost extremes of injustice and oppression.
Edward Gibbon

Read what Timj posted, it was really good. I have no idea what you said there or where you're going with it. It makes no sense and it is a circular argument with you as usual.

no it wasn’t in our eyes today..BUT remember we had Japanese subs bombing the west coast, German subs putting ashore sabotage teams.....it was different era and they had to live it....


look guys judging things like this, this far removed makes us all Monday morning QB's...we have learned this much, locking up for instance every Muslim in this country would be counter productive and a violation of civil rights, which to be fair may or may not be a violation of civil rights depending on how fair the US courts would be to them........

lets say in a wild burst of conjecture….Muslims in this country and by that I mean a plethora or majority of mosques were to be found giving support to extremist elements in which bombs stated going off in pizzerias in Buffalo, or Fort Lauderdale, or San Francisco…..and it was prevalent and constant…….20 – 30 instances traced back to Muslims…how much do you think the American people would take before reaching a point of civil exhaustion and IF the gov. proposed putting Muslims in camps what kind of support do you think they would get …if a corollary could be traced to mosques etc. how far do you think we would be from outlawing mosques or gatherings of Muslims? People are herd animals to an extent and guess what?…they would by a huge majority supporting it, good or bad, IF the attacks stopped.

Don’t rail on me, I am just throwing it out there….


Think on that.. Because its scary…..the scare maybe to our eyes right now superficial, but think on it….people all people, are in the end, self interested ..we ALL are…and ..take it from there….

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I think I was clear..what can I say? my nuances slide by you others seem to get them…no offense meant…

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

unlike some and I don't mean you or slon, I read EVERY post in which respond.... I am sure we both suffer this.....

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

yeah, I'm all giggles like you. har dee har har har. Whatever.

Well, so much for my trying to build a bridge and be jocular...

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Same thing happened when the US sheep fell for the Patriot Act after 9/11. And yes, many are sheep. I condemned the Patriot Act and still do, nonetheless.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.