No, Sam, having been a paramedic of the better part of two decades, I am acutely aware that docs make mistakes (just like other humans).

Wow, are you dancing with Andrew's strawman now? I never said doctors are always right.

And I never remotely said I oppose malpractice insurance.

What I do oppose is a scenario where good docs get screwed by lawyers who pander to emotion and convince juries to return huge verdicts "for the victim" - and then the attorney pockets most of the money.

How does that happen, you might ask? Let's take a hypothetic - but very realistic example.

John is crossing the street one day, and a driver runs the red light and hits him. John sustains major orthopedic injuries, and requires an extended hospitalization and rehab.

The driver has a 1 million dollar umbrella liability policy, and the jury returns a 1 million dollar verdict.

The attorney takes $400,000 of the top (40% contingency fee).
The attorney takes another $100,000 for expenses, including witness fees. (If John is very lucky, the attorney only takes the actual expenses).

John was in the hospital, and his health insurance ended up paying for much of his care. So they have a ~$250,000 subrogation claim, and now John is looking at about 1/4 of the settlement, before taxes.

This is not at all unrealistic. It happens every day.

In the case of car insurance, we all pay for that judgment with higher premiums. Same thing with malpractice insurance.

Money doesn't just magically appear when a jury signs a verdict sheet. It comes from somewhere. And when an insurer has to pay out, they get the money back from the consumer.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Matt I was asking.....you're so defensive all the time. It's not a strawman, it's a question. You always fight against malpractice insurance, so I wanted to know if you were actually against it? Sheesh!
So you're saying this is the lawyer's fault? If the person didn't deserve the settlement because of his injury, isn't it the Judge and jury's fault for the bad judgement? And the person in your story sounded like he deserved the settlement. Sure there are bad lawyers, just as there are bad doctors. Was it a bad lawyer who won that settlement for his injured client?

And malpractise insurance isn't the only reason for high health insurance costs. But when John Edwards threads come up, it's all you can talk about. So far I haven't been convinced that he was a bad lawyer.

Hokey stunts like "channeling" the "spirit" of the child don't help a jury reach a conclusion based on fact. It's a stunt, to make the jury emotionally sympathize with the plaintiff.

Not every birth defect is the result of a physician's conduct - but there are attorneys, like Edwards, who get very rich telling juries that birth defects are caused by physicians.

Never said it was.

And you never will - he's on your "team", so you won't look at him as anything but a wonderful champion of the downtrodden.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

If all you ever have is one example where Edwards spoke for his dead client, then you're right. He seems like a good guy to me.

Litigation is not the only cause for climbing medical costs. I'd guess it is probably not even the largest. There are two overwhelming factors which increase costs out of control that are obvious and nobody seems to notice. The first is free medical care, since laws required ER's to provide care on demand regardless of financial responsibility. Combined with illegal immigration, it makes for a nightmare. Secondly, the supposed technology being introduced in the medical industry (imaging and pharmaceuticals are the biggest) has no end of expense and the end product must be paid for. Since everybody insists on the latest and greatest care available, and since our lives are more valuable than any expense, there is no limit to the expense.

Of course, the child wasn't dead, but don't let that spoil the show....

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Jesus Matt.

Why DO you waste so much energy ?

That's right, but let's not spoil Matt's fun bashing Edwards for being a lawyer.

J.E. is a snakeoil salesman. One of the worst (or, actually best) kind. People really seem beleive him.

John Edwards, actually pretended to channel words of a yet to be born (Matt # 48, above), breeched baby girl. During his final arguments in one case, Edwards told the jury, “She said at 3 ‘I’m fine.’ She said at 4, ‘I’m having a little trouble but I’m ok.’ Five, she said, ‘I’m having problems.’ At 5:30, she said, ‘I need out.’” Edwards went on to say, “And I have to tell you right now – I didn’t plan to talk about this – right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She’s inside me, and she’s talking to you.”

This performance was supposed to demonstrate that the doctors lack of an immediate Caesarean section caused the baby to have brain damage. The jury bought this and awarded the plaintiff a $6.5 million verdict.

{Adam Liptak and Michael Moss, “In trial work, Edwards left a trade mark,” New York Times, Jan. 31, 2004.}

He's not bashing the fact he is a lawyer, but his actions as a lawyer. It seemed pretty clear to me.

You're just pissed that it's been shown, loud and clear, that you have faith in people like edwards that have been shown to be master manipulators and weirdos.

Has anybody brought up the insurance companies in all of this? Anybody have statistics as to how much these companies' costs are going up vs. how much athey are raising their rates because of malpractice lawsuits?

I don't have any love (or hate, for that matter) for lawyers but it seems like there are more parties than just lawyers to look at here for an actual fix to the problem. I'm not opposed to controlling how much lawyers get or capping lawsuits, but if health care problems are solely being blamed on lawyers, it seems like we are going for easy scapegoats and not a solution.

Oh and lynxpilot,

Let's get rid of the law that requires hospitals treat ER patients after people can actually afford to have insurance. That people end up going to ER because they have no insurance is symptomatic of bigger problems.

Oh, and by the way, who do you suggest take care of an illegal?

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Fortunatus sum! Pila mea de gramine horrido modo in pratum lene recta volvit!

Most businesses that are competitive for employees already do this.

What is innovative about this? It took me a day to sift through the various health benefits packages offered to me by my employer because there were so many different providers and plans available

And how will the hospitals be able to tell who is an “American resident" and who is not? Do the liberals want those who are here illegally to document themselves?

Read “active involvement” as “vote for me and I will give you these pretty things”.


Finally, where is the requisite plan outlining how this will be financed?

That’s a big leap.

During my recent experience in an ER, I would wager that less than a third of the patients in the ER were here legally. It was pretty annoying. My wait was outrageous due to the illegals not going to a physician’s office for the sniffles because they can get free service at the hospital (well, the hospital will bill them, but there is no great consequence if they don’t pay). And I couldn’t help thinking that the healthcare deduction I see on every paycheck would be less if my employer-subsidized insurance didn’t have to foot the bill for those patients that have no insurance and will end up not paying their bills. The costs for those write-offs trickle down to us. Plus, perhaps I could have more salary because my employer does not have to pay high costs for that benefit. (It was a long wait – I had lots of time to think.)

OB/GYNs have the some of the worst premiums for malpractice insurance because of the disproportionate number of malpractice suits against them. This has driven many out of the field. There is a great shortage of OB/GYNs as a result. Try getting an appointment with an OB/GYN in your area – you will be surprised at how long between your call and your actual appointment. Now, that is a free market issue – costs driving away a service.

Of course, tort reform will not happen anytime soon since trial attorney special interest groups are the second largest political contributor, with about 70% of those contributions going to the Democratic party. Source: Industry Totals: Lawyers/Law Firms

How about another illegal ?

There's enough of them HERE (due to our own stupidity) to probably start their own illegal alien HOSPITALS.

If I slithered into another country illegally, with no paperwork or ANYTHING about who I am and became deathly ill, do I think I'D be rushed to a hospital and cared for with the best medicine by the best doctors ?

No, I don't.

I fully expect I'd be prioritized to the bottomm of the list and probably DIE.

That's what I'd expect if I crawled, illegally into another country and got sick.

They have their OWN citizens to care for FIRST. Not some Gomez who illegally came into their country.

No what happens is that in those other countries it takes months and months to get assistance. That's why everyone in the world who can afford to come to America for healthcare.

Varus