Bush has accomplished nothing more than playing with Al Queda:

"who can kill more people"

You see: his war on terror is a failure because JUST AS MANY people are dying, if not more.

This brings to the front the value of a war on terror: what do you think will be accomplished? Oh, less human casualty. But, if soldiers are still dying, and many more Iraqi's are dying - are you saving lives?

What about the reports that indicate a rise in terrorism?

You better think twice about assuming G W Bush has done a good job. People of the world are witnessing American hubris and wondering how one could support america's actions:

Not finding Osama bin Laden
Not finding WMD
Justifying Iraq invasion
Justifying Iraqi casualties as simply a matter of war

Each day, Bush loses. Each helicopter downing, soldier casket and Iraqi death: Bush loses.

These are the reasons Bush's presidency is hated. He is ineffective and short of credibility.

I am not convinced he has done anything more than put us and the world in danger.

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I just watched Bolton on CNN and he's attacking the deal and even the Bush admin saying its exactly the kind of BS that failed during the Clinton admin. Personally I think Bolton's the idiot.

Hopefully this is the real deal. Only time will tell.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

North Korea dosen't redeem him. Kim Jon Ill is just an insane human being who plays nice one minute and then dicks with us the next. He knows his country depends on trade, so of course, it's not some genuis breakthrough from Bush.

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Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

- George Orwell, 1984

And a much BETTER "Piece of work" than those who agree with "Your" crap, (and whom to which I beleive you are referring)

Actually I don't agree with anyone who has thus far responded to this thread.:

This morning it was outlined on the news, just what the agreement was. and it appears that all we did is equivelent to paying a ransom to a Kidnapper and thus paving the way for, and assuring there will be other groups, and/or nations following suit. And all we got for it is a promise.

People like you make me hopeful that common sense is not yet dead.

~Ben

Bolton is right, but he has the advantage of not having to make a decision or play politics anymore. Bush is simply getting NK off our back so we can deal with other things. No one seriously believe that Kim Jong Il will ever change.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

[quote]It is clear that the bootheel is a Mans World and that is one reason why they get so angry over gay rights issues. As for being very loving, I don't think sisters and 1rst cousins was what God had in mind, but ehy I could be wrong.

Now care to discuss the actual issue you raised, you know how the recent agreement is pretty much the same agreement as Clinton negotiated without all the antagonism in the meantime.

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

[quote]But didn't we spend the last 3 years complaining that the Clinton deal didn't work, which it didn't, and that was why Bush had to play hardball with the North Koreans? It seems to me this is exactly the kind of hardball he played with OBL as well. Talk a tough game then when it is clear you are not going to be able to accomplish your objective declare victory, or in OBL's case simply say you do not think about him much anymore. This is what you are defending?

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The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

wont matter bush could cure aids and people would say he sucks and that

"aids will rebound later"

I doubt this is more than NK needing some rice......but in the end if it isnt will any bush hater give him credit?

that would be a now

Hard to say. It seems like a lot of Clinton haters were all up in arms that Clinton made a deal with NK, but they kept on with their nuclear program. I guess bashing someone for making a deal they thought would work and then doing the same is risky ground to walk on. Did we actually get a good source on this or are we just going off rumors from Socialist-Progressive fucking consrvative traitors ?

I agree completly with Bolton. We should not negotiate with evil-doers and terrorists. Bush should be ashamed to be linked with the same sort of appeasement as the Great Satan, Bill Clinton.

I won't knock this deal. As it stands, the US really doesn't have options and NK knows it. The US military and national budget is too stretched to deal with NK militarily, its international influence and ability to lead is at a real low point, and NK is a tough nut to handle militarily given its border with allied China and the US having a vulnerable densely populated wealthy ally, SK, within easy reach of NK's military and weapons with Seoul only being a hop-skip-and-jump from the DMZ.

In Clinton's defence, I feel it is extremely unfair when I hear Clinton's detractors in the public fault him for the agreement's failure when it was Reps in Congress and anti-Clinton hawks in departments who opposed and wrecked the agreement itself. The US had significantly breached the agreement because Reps who controlled Congress at that time and hawks in the departments opposed Clinton's deal with NK and they stonewalled the US's obligations under that agreement. Aid was underfunded, oil shipments were both undersupplied and late, and they even blocked the removal of key sanctions and the establishing of diplomatic relations with NK that were part of the deal. NK repeatedly objected to that stonewalling and said it would move ahead with its nuclear programme unless the deal was honoured, and as the US kept failing to honour its terms, they kept on building their nuclear programme.

Whether NK would have honoured the agreement had the US honoured the agreement is something we will never really know. We will know now with this agreement.

And better yet, it has other nations involved in it unlike the prior agreement. The former agreement had no other nations committed to it, so the US had no one else by the collar regarding how they dealt with NK or upon they could demand assistance regarding NK. What should be especially helpful is that China is involved in the agreement, and it is the No.1 ally of NK, and it is known that they want the turmoil calmed down and do not like Kim Jong Il making this raucous in their neighbourhood.

I also won't fault Bush for doing what the world asked of him, and that was peaceful international approaches to problem solving. He delivered here, and now it is time for others to deliver on that too. He was smart not to go into unilateral agreements too. IMO, if people outside the US want internationalism with solving problems like NK--something I fully support--then everyone has to put their arse on the line along with the US toward that end--something I also support.

If it doesn't work, stronger options would become more clear and justifiable given the efforts to get compliance through good faith dealings failed.

Of note since a poster mentioned it, I wonder if the US can get the USS Pueblo back now. It would be merely symbolic at this point given it has no real military use as a WWII era ship, but it would be one unnecessary insult that would be nice to have resolved.

For those who don't know what this is about, it refers to NK's retention of a US Navy ship that it seized in an infamous incident during the 1960s. Today, NK gives tours of the ship.

USS Pueblo & - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


USS Pueblo docked in Pyongyang

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James Hoban. Irish Architect. Member of the Royal Dublin Society. Hoban designed and built the White House and based it upon the top exterior and interior two floors of Leinster House, then known as Kildare House, which is now the current Irish Parliament building. He was also a supervisory architect of the US Capitol Building.

Let me remind everyone of the last Presdential debate, with John Kerry stating that "we need to go to one on one talks" with Kim Jung! That's right, for all you libs that voted for good ol' flip-flopping Kerry. Kerry was ready to go round two with Kim Jung, just like Clinton had done, which would have resulted in total FAILURE, again.

Due to President Bush's insistance that there be bi-lateral talks with Japan, S.K & especially CHINA involved, Kim Jungs biggest supporter, things are actually starting to happen.

Now, if we can get Russia, to put to the screws to Iran, they would turn their Nukes in on a dime. It's time to put some pressure on Russia.

Kim Jung has to verify demolition of the plant. This is a back-end loaded deal, not a front. If the wants the total package he has to verify. This was not the order of events during the Clinton administration.