North Korea is ready to behave..Thanks George! - Page 7 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

jviehe · #91 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beer

Give credit where credit is due:
Condoleeza Rice can be pointed to in connecting these countries to negotiate. Not Bush.

Does Bush get credit for sending Condi then? Or making her Sec State?

Imperator · #92 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by doniston

Yep, and we are offering them.

sadly this is true.......

I hammered Clinton for his resolution, in all fairness this does not look much different and will now hammer George as well......IF this is enforced by on the ground inspections, timely unannounced inspections with unfettered access..then and only then..I may be able to see it doing some good, but my faith has fled. As someone else has said, this does nothing for the human rights of his enslaved pop., it does enable kim to hang on though…which is, to me…sad.

IronMaiden27 · #93 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

Apples to Oranges. Clinton made a bad foriegn policy move when he attempted to appease a dictator. Rumsfeld was a private citizen whose company made a smart financial decision. I dont even know that Rumsfeld had anything to do with it.

I'll find a link to support my claim.

IronMaiden27 · #94 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/10/what-did-donald-rumsfeld-know-about-abbs-deal-to-build-nuclear-reactors-there/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2Fmagazines%2Ffort une%2Ffortune_archive%2F2003%2F05%2F12%2F342316%2F index.htm&frame=true

Quote:

(FORTUNE Magazine) – Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld rarely keeps his opinions to himself. He tends not to compromise with his enemies. And he clearly disdains the communist regime in North Korea. So it's surprising that there is no clear public record of his views on the controversial 1994 deal in which the U.S. agreed to provide North Korea with two light-water nuclear reactors in exchange for Pyongyang ending its nuclear weapons program. What's even more surprising about Rumsfeld's silence is that he sat on the board of the company that won a $200 million contract to provide the design and key components for the reactors.

Rumsfeld declined requests by FORTUNE to elaborate on his role. But ABB spokesman Bjorn Edlund has told FORTUNE that "board members were informed about this project." And other ABB officials say there is no way such a large and high-stakes project, involving complex questions of liability, would not have come to the attention of the board. "A written summary would probably have gone to the board before the deal was signed," says Robert Newman, a former president of ABB's U.S. nuclear division who spearheaded the project. "I'm sure they were aware."

FORTUNE contacted 15 ABB board members who served at the time the company was bidding for the Pyongyang contract, and all but one declined to comment. That director, who asked not to be identified, says he's convinced that ABB's chairman at the time, Percy Barnevik, told the board about the reactor project in the mid-1990s. "This was a major thing for ABB," the former director says, "and extensive political lobbying was done."

ZING!

doniston · #95 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beer

Give credit where credit is due:
Condoleeza Rice can be pointed to in connecting these countries to negotiate. Not Bush.

To what "Credit" do you refer???? IMHO this is a bad deal

Analogy: We are paying of the kidnapper in hopes he will return the Child unharmed.

THIS IN NOT GOOD..

misjudgedinall · #96 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

The new world order was born on September 11th 2001

IT IS A SETUP! Like stacking the deck in a game of cards. Don't you realize that when Bush and his top execs are done in the political ring that they will become rich beyond your wildest imagination. All because the contracts in developing worlds are already given to haliburton and other corporations that are directly controlled by Rumsfield and other Republicans who are benifiting from the Bush campaign. All at the cost of our freedom.

IronMaiden27 · #97 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by misjudgedinall

Don't you realize that when Bush and his top execs are done in the political ring that they will become rich beyond your wildest imagination. All because the contracts in developing worlds are already given to haliburton and other corporations that are directly controlled by Rumsfield and other Republicans who are benifiting from the Bush campaign. All at the cost of our freedom.

I reailze that yes, but not a lot of people want to

jviehe · #98 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMaiden27

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/10/what-did-donald-rumsfeld-know-about-abbs-deal-to-build-nuclear-reactors-there/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2Fmagazines%2Ffort une%2Ffortune_archive%2F2003%2F05%2F12%2F342316%2F index.htm&frame=true

ZING!

I dont see any facts in there. Just implications. But even were you right, I dont get your point. Sounds like what he did was in the interests of increasing shareholder value.

enigma2 · #99 (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by misjudgedinall

The new world order was born on September 11th 2001

IT IS A SETUP! Like stacking the deck in a game of cards. Don't you realize that when Bush and his top execs are done in the political ring that they will become rich beyond your wildest imagination. All because the contracts in developing worlds are already given to haliburton and other corporations that are directly controlled by Rumsfield and other Republicans who are benifiting from the Bush campaign. All at the cost of our freedom.

I realise it, and I live in Australia!!

daviscn · #**100** (**permalink**) 02-16-2007

Far as I have read -- and I have read widely -- this is any many way a weaker deal than the one the Reps trashed in the wake of the Clinton framework. Heck, even Johnnie Bolton hates it....

CD

Ironman Jack · #**101** (**permalink**) 02-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

jviehe said:Ah, so now we're back to finding something to criticize Bush for. Lets see:

1. Bush gets no credit for the deal - Correct. I would give the credit to the Chineese diplomats who actually carried the biggest stick in these 6 party talks.
2. if the deal fails, its Bush's fault. - No. If the deal fails, it's Kim Jong's fault
3. if it suceedes. it was in spite of something Bush did wrong - Correct in a way. Bush has nothing to do with diplomacy. This deal got done in spite of Bush's lack of diplomacy. But again, I would give credit to China in making this deal happen anyway.
4. we shouldnt have needed a deal, cause this NK getting nukes is Bushs fault
- Incorrect. Anyone claiming this is full of it.

Really, whats the point of debate any more?

BUT, had the Clinton duo of Bonnie & Clyde, been in there, You would fall over "Penny Loafers" to give these Communist Associates credit up the ass!

Make NO mistake, Bush had a big hand in it, and that is why China exerted pressure, as we are responsible for their NEW Economic way of life!!

doniston · #**102** (**permalink**) 02-17-2007

Still a damn BAD deal.

Imperator · #**103** (**permalink**) 02-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by misjudgedinall

The new world order was born on September 11th 2001

IT IS A SETUP! Like stacking the deck in a game of cards. Don't you realize that when Bush and his top execs are done in the political ring that they will become rich beyond your wildest imagination. All because the contracts in developing worlds are already given to haliburton and other corporations that are directly controlled by Rumsfield and other Republicans who are benifiting from the Bush campaign. All at the cost of our freedom.

lets see; can you tell me how many companies there are in the world who can amass; Engineering, construction, management and the requisite technical skills and manpower like Bechtel and Halliburton that perform the functions that they do? I can find 4 and worked for one for 3 years…..……Parsons Brinkerhoff, Flour Corp. and Black and Veatch…. .....the structure of a company that has global resources, reach and the management to spread itself out and build an infrastructure ala iraq from scratch are not readily available ..the Halliburton decision was made because, those other companies (except one) are foreign owned, by countries who did not support our foray into iraq..Bush at the time said he didn't see the reason to enrich or reward companies based in France and Germany who have the global capabilities that Bechtel and/or Halliburton do…….

oh and quick quiz; how many shares of Halliburton does Cheney won?

ViolaLee · #**104** (**permalink**) 02-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviscn

Far as I have read -- and I have read widely -- this is any many way a weaker deal than the one the Reps trashed in the wake of the Clinton framework. Heck, even Johnnie Bolton hates it....

CD

Not only that, but if Bush had left Clinton's deal in place, NK wouldn't have the nukes they have today. When Bush ended Clinton's deal, he left NK wide open to develope nuclear bombs.

Iraq was Bush's only focus, forget Bin Laden, forget North Korea, forget balancing the budget, forget the Constitution. He just had to invade Iraq, no matter what.

Imperator · #**105** (**permalink**) 02-17-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samantha

Not only that, but if Bush had left Clinton's deal in place, NK wouldn't have the nukes they have today. When Bush ended Clinton's deal, he left NK wide open to develope nuclear bombs.

Iraq was Bush's only focus, forget Bin Laden, forget North Korea, forget balancing the budget, forget the Constitution. He just had to invade Iraq, no matter what.

you're ranting...take a breath sam....

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