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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTlilODD View Post


Because marshmallows don't have bones.
How about swallows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
It most certainly was, I don’t care what they teach you guys today.
It was not universal or with more then one meaning.
Nonsense. I showed you the wiki link with all the meanings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips View Post
FWIW (and probably not too much), my personal experience is that the term is racist in nature. There is a sizeable Hispanic population in my area, and, growing up, I worked closely with a lot of Hispanics (my fluency in Spanish helped). Generally, they used the term in a racist way and also in a friendly way (calling me 'gringo', for example). I think the term was used toward me in the same vein that black people call one another "nigga". Anyway, my experience was that it was used predominantly to describe white people who were wealthy and generally rude. It was only used to describe white people, and it was never "friendly" (with the exception of what I mentioned). Personally, I believe that this qualifies it as 'racist' - at least, in my experience.
I don't understand. You YOURSELF say (as I've been saying) that the word was used in DIFFERENT ways, and that it was used in a friendly way towards you (a.k.a. nikka). So how would it be racist?? You may think it COULD be used in a racist way, and I agree, but it doesnt mean it HAS to be used in that manner.

Quote:
And, on a side note, one of the most startling things to me, growing up and associating with a lot of Hispanics, is that a lot of Hispanics are virulently racist toward one another. When I worked as a golf caddy, I worked with a lot of Hispanics, many Mexican. However, there were also some Salvadorians, Hondurans, Puerto Ricans, and Venezuelans. If someone would blithely and ignorantly refer to any of these as a 'Mexican', they would become furious. I originally thought it was because they were incensed that the 'gringo' couldn't be bothered to learn their country of origin, but that wasn't it. Apparently, Hispanics from those countries, living here, believe that Mexicans are genuinely inferior... I learned this by having several of them tell it to me in no uncertain terms.
This is a completely different issue. But yes, I agree with you ... I don't think it's very sensible that blacks call each other "nigga" and it's not considered racists, for instance. I also dont see how Hispanics wouldn't get upset if one of their own called them Mexican but if you (white man) called them that, they'd throw a fit. Nope, I dont agree with that - but again, different issue altogether.

I have to say the point Sam made comes into play here about the white man having been the oppressor. Yep, I'm waiting for you to tell me that "this happened eons ago and isn't applicable, and I shouldn't think this way" - hey, *I* don't think that way, but unfortunately many do, and thats exactly why it happens. I am simply giving you a reason. Do I agree? No. Do I see where they are coming from? Yes, sorta ... Fair? Not at all. Realistic? Certainly.

*If this was not the point you were trying to make in the last para, please advise.*
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi Jiu View Post
How about swallows?



Nonsense. I showed you the wiki link with all the meanings.



I don't understand. You YOURSELF say (as I've been saying) that the word was used in DIFFERENT ways, and that it was used in a friendly way towards you (a.k.a. nikka). So how would it be racist?? You may think it COULD be used in a racist way, and I agree, but it doesnt mean it HAS to be used in that manner.



This is a completely different issue. But yes, I agree with you ... I don't think it's very sensible that blacks call each other "nigga" and it's not considered racists, for instance. I also dont see how Hispanics wouldn't get upset if one of their own called them Mexican but if you (white man) called them that, they'd throw a fit. Nope, I dont agree with that - but again, different issue altogether.

I have to say the point Sam made comes into play here about the white man having been the oppressor. Yep, I'm waiting for you to tell me that "this happened eons ago and isn't applicable, and I shouldn't think this way" - hey, *I* don't think that way, but unfortunately many do, and thats exactly why it happens. I am simply giving you a reason. Do I agree? No. Do I see where they are coming from? Yes, sorta ... Fair? Not at all. Realistic? Certainly.

*If this was not the point you were trying to make in the last para, please advise.*
I have heard people use "nigger" in a friendly manner. Now, I have no problem with Chavez calling anyone gringo and have no problem with people calling blacks nigger. Do you also not have a problem with people calling blacks niggers?
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Not if you're from the District of Columbia.

District of Columbia


... I'm not.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
I have heard people use "nigger" in a friendly manner. Now, I have no problem with Chavez calling anyone gringo and have no problem with people calling blacks nigger. Do you also not have a problem with people calling blacks niggers?
Gringo is not a racist term per se, while nigger is. Thus I most certainly have a problem with anyone, blacks or whites, calling blacks niggers, but gringo in my book is not a racist term necessarily so no, I dont have a problem with that. I wouldn't use the term myself though.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi Jiu View Post
Gringo is not a racist term per se, while nigger is. Thus I most certainly have a problem with anyone, blacks or whites, calling blacks niggers, but gringo in my book is not a racist term necessarily so no, I dont have a problem with that. I wouldn't use the term myself though.
They both appear on this page:

List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently, it is a "racial" slur, not a "racist" slur. According to this:

Nigger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
The Spanish word negro originates from the Latin word niger, meaning black. In English, negro or neger became negar and finally nigger, most likely under influence of French nègre (also derived from the Latin niger).
So it just means "black," which they are. What is the big problem?
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
They both appear on this page:

List of ethnic slurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently, it is a "racial" slur, not a "racist" slur. According to this:

Nigger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So it just means "black," which they are. What is the big problem?
The big problem is I don't agree with your interpretation of the words "racist" and "racial". If you were to say Negro, I'd have no prob with it, but not nigger.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Pi Jiu View Post
The big problem is I don't agree with your interpretation of the words "racist" and "racial". If you were to say Negro, I'd have no prob with it, but not nigger.
What is the difference? It's a variation of the word "negro."
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
What is the difference? It's a variation of the word "negro."
You can't be serious.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
You can't be serious.
Do tell us what the huge difference is.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

I would, but I don't see how it relates to the subject. Negro and Nigger both refer to race, Gringo does not necessarily.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Donkey_Left View Post
I would, but I don't see how it relates to the subject. Negro and Nigger both refer to race, Gringo does not necessarily.
My question was why PJ has a problem with one but not the other.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
Thematic-Device Thematic-Device is offline
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

So Hajji, a term of respect, is a racist term, because american soldiers use it, even though it is not taken offense to, but Gringo, a long established term of disrespect, which is taken offense to, is not a racist term because after all Chavez said it...
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by trobinett View Post
LANGUAGE, thats a preseptive YOU need to pay more attention to.

Communication of thoughts and feelings through a system of arbitrary signals, such as voice sounds, gestures, or written symbols.
b. Such a system including its rules for combining its components, such as words.
c. Such a system as used by a nation, people, or other distinct community; often contrasted with dialect.
2.
a. A system of signs, symbols, gestures, or rules used in communicating: the language of algebra.
b. Computer Science A system of symbols and rules used for communication with or between computers.
3. Body language; kinesics.
4. The special vocabulary and usages of a scientific, professional, or other group: "his total mastery of screen languagecamera placement, editingand his handling of actors" (Jack Kroll).
5. A characteristic style of speech or writing: Shakespearean language.
6. A particular manner of expression: profane language; persuasive language.
7. The manner or means of communication between living creatures other than humans: the language of dolphins.
8. Verbal communication as a subject of study.
9. The wording of a legal document or statute as distinct from the spirit.
language synonyms
noun
A system of terms used by a people sharing a history and culture: dialect, speech, tongue, vernacular. Linguistics: langue. See words
Specialized expressions indigenous to a particular field, subject, trade, or subculture: argot, cant2, dialect, idiom, jargon, lexicon, lingo, patois, terminology, vernacular, vocabulary.

I don't think you have a CLUE what language is my dear child.

Grow up.

Your dismissed.........
As you have obviously transcribed most of your post from a linguistics textbook, it may not hurt you to actually READ it, although I don't expect you to understand it.

Language is an arbitrary system of signs, or at least it was when I studied linguistics at Uni, however, grammar is not!


You're dismissed, you pompous twirp!
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
What is the difference? It's a variation of the word "negro."
It's a racist variation of the word. Thats the difference and why I have a problem with it, and not "Gringo", which can clearly be used in non-racial terms. By the way, if your gonna come back with "well blacks call each other that and get away with it", well, I don't particularly agree with that either ...

Seriously - do YOU think Chavez was being racist when he said that, or just plain offensive?
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2007
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Re: Chavez uses racist epithet referring to Bush

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Originally Posted by Pi Jiu View Post
It's a racist variation of the word.
What do you mean? The article says negro turned into nigger simply because of the influence of the French language. Is "nigger" some kind of acronym for "My Race Is Superior To Your Race, Which Is The Negro Race?"
Quote:
Thats the difference and why I have a problem with it, and not "Gringo", which can clearly be used in non-racial terms.
Nigger can be used by blacks towards blacks. And you cannot be racist against your own race since racism is the belief that your race is superior to another race (it's impossible and a contradiction to consider someone of your race to be inferior to your race).
Quote:
By the way, if your gonna come back with "well blacks call each other that and get away with it", well, I don't particularly agree with that either ...

Seriously - do YOU think Chavez was being racist when he said that, or just plain offensive?
I don't think he was being racist.
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