Blair considers Legalizing Poppy in Afghanistan - Page 3 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

TheLastBoyScout · #31 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Americano

Viability depends on market value of legal exports (I have no idea), will they generate as much revenue as illegal production. Resistance to US occupation will tax those proceeds in one form or another and, if illegal exports are more profitable, tribal chieftains will play both the legal and illegal sides of the street.

Here's a US state department paper opposing legalization:

U.S. Opposes Efforts to Legalize Opium in Afghanistan: The Rationale Against Legalization

One of their talking points is legal poppy exportation having far less value than illegal exports. The paper claims legal morphine is in adequate supply and stockpiled, but contradicts itself by blaming unavailability in undeveloped countries on this and that. Typical anti-drug message tied in with expressed democratic principles from an administration in bed with the pharmaceutical industry.

The U.S government is holding the "War on Drugs" line.

What they say in the paper is in many ways true though.

- There will not be as much legal demand as there is illegal.
- Some farmers will still sell to the black market to make higher profits.

But on the positive side, regulation would be in place and the poppy growing would be curbed and under control. The street price of herion would go up, but there would not be as much of the product anymore.

Americano · #32 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

The U.S government is holding the "War on Drugs" line.

What they say in the paper is in many ways true though.

- There will not be as much legal demand as there is illegal.
- Some farmers will still sell to the black market to make higher profits.

But on the positive side, regulation would be in place and the poppy growing would be curbed and under control. The street price of herion would go up, but there would not be as much of the product anymore.

Mexico cartels have proved they can supply heroin through the same international distribution systems that carry its other illegal products to fill any market demand unfulfilled by Afghanistan or Burma.

I'm reluctant to accept legal market statistics cooked by a war on drugs position. There were too many gaps in the report which relies on developed country consumption.

Beer · #33 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by conformfailure

This drug is no friend to humanity.

It's amazing how the Taliban attempted to eradicate the drug and now that the U.S/U.K. is in there, the opium business has blossomed.

Anyone that can't connect the dots is probably an idiot. Nothing like the U.S. of A involved in producing and trafficking drugs.

Expect a drug epidemic in America in less than 5 years. Expect it to be worse than it already is in China.

Food is one of those addicting substances. Yet, people often overlook the fact that many more die as a result of indulging.

Why isnt there the same approach to food that there is on drugs? You can stuff your face and become a blimp with all sorts of additional health problems (heart problems, lack of exercise) not to mention becoming an obstacle when walking around.

My point is some drugs are no unhealthier than food addiction. You wont see government regulating food consumption. Why? Its a business. People pay to eat. They love how it makes them feel. Americans love their fast food places. Its unhealthy but were free to be unhealthy, arent we?

Poppy/heroin same deal. People consume it. In Aghanistans case, it helps their economy. If you are careful with it, you'll be fine.
The point is further driven with the FDA. Americans are spared from the ill effects of inferior food production. Huge fines, possible jail fines - for producers who knowingly ship bad food.
The same approach to drugs.
If you want to be an overeater/excessive drug user, you will pay the price.

That simple. I'm tired of compromising my freedom to ingest substances simply because there is no regulation for it, or because some people choose to be irresponsible.

I'm sure the people in Afghanistan are mature enough to realize the ramifications of overindulgence. Its too bad many thousands of Americans will die from pigging out and its ill health effects from obesity.

TheStripey1 · #34 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fozmonster

Morphine comes from poppy production

Morphine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So does heroin.

TheStripey1 · #35 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Americano

Which makes me wonder why Blair would make such a logical statement that goes against all US policy efforts of poppy eradication, denied by current Afghanistan government. Rummy and the unfunded Medicare prescription plan was the pay back for US pharmaceutical industry political support and they don't deal (pun intended) in morphine.

Could this be a first step in the UK diverting from certain current US policies?
No more Bush lap dog status in the world as a goal?

As far as I can tell, the US is NOT involved in poppy eradication in Afghanistan. If we were, Afghanistan wouldn't be the world's biggest exporter like it is now.

But I thought that there was a War on Drugs here in the U S of A... IMO, this developement will not sit well with bush...

TheStripey1 · #36 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slon

"But if we lose the war on drugs, it emboldens the terrorists!"

- I just made an excellent neocon argument.

laffs... it also finances them which unfortunately, is NOT a laffing matter...

TheStripey1 · #37 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by conformfailure

This drug is no friend to humanity.

It's amazing how the Taliban attempted to eradicate the drug and now that the U.S/U.K. is in there, the opium business has blossomed.

Anyone that can't connect the dots is probably an idiot. Nothing like the U.S. of A involved in producing and trafficking drugs.

Expect a drug epidemic in America in less than 5 years. Expect it to be worse than it already is in China.

but but but... I thought there was a war on drugs... and I always heard that heroin was one of the worst... But if they legalize heroin, then will they also legalize all the lessor drugs?

I don't know if I like that idea... won't that create more users and abusers than there are now?

Can we afford that as a civilized society?

TheStripey1 · #38 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gem

Since we're going to have addicts whether the drug is legally available or not I would propose legalizing it and making it reasonably and affordably available through a pharmacist. That would at least alleviate the problems of the associated crimes commited by addicts and those looking for quick sources of astronomical sums of cash, and probably result in a reduction of overdose deaths as well.
And it would rip the financial underpinnings of organizations like Al Qeada, the Taliban and the world-wide drug cartels right out from underneath them.

Seems to me legalizing the stuff would kill a multitude of birds with one stone, if you'll excuse the pun.

Gem

Hmmm, I never thought of it like that... I suppose it could be beneficial TO society and not a drain UPON it... but I'd want to see more studies conducted...

obtw, I love the pun...

TheStripey1 · #39 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma2

Very true, Sir. The poppy industry is run mainly for the benefit of the CIA secret budget. This is why they hated the elected government of Afghanistan back in the 80's. That government was paying the farmers not to grow poppies and was trying to move the crop into other profitable areas.

The true story of the invasion of Afghanistan is not as simple as the 'Bushies' would have us believe.

wha wha wah what?

You mean it wasn't about 9/11?

TheStripey1 · #40 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

It's a myth that the Taliban tried to eradicate Opium production while they were in power. What happened is that they curbed production for a couple of years to drive the price up. They had huge surplusses in storage and so they created a false shortage so that it would be more profitable.

The Taliban still makes money off the drug trade.

If poppy production were legalized and regulated, the Taliban would lose a vital part of their funding.

Not neccessarily... just because England legalizes it doesn't mean that it will be legalized here... there will still be illicit trade...

TheStripey1 · #41 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Americano

You must be somewhat sheltered as meth, not heroin, is now the street drug of choice and any cop will tell you it has already reached epidemic proportions. Far less expensive than heroin will ever be, longer lasting high and physically far more destructive than heroin.

Americano, you make it sound like we have lost the war on drugs... meth epidemic?

Fozmonster · #42 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Sheesh - Stripey - it's Britain, you know Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England!

At least for the moment....

Independence — SNP - Scottish National Party

Bullshit · #43 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStripey1

but but but... I thought there was a war on drugs... and I always heard that heroin was one of the worst... But if they legalize heroin, then will they also legalize all the lessor drugs?

I don't know if I like that idea... won't that create more users and abusers than there are now?

Can we afford that as a civilized society?

Nicotine is more addictive than heroin (and more toxic than arsenic) yet "enhanced" cigarettes are sold everywhere. Drugs are declared legal/illegal purely for monetary/political reasons. A classic example is marijuana. The war on drugs is really a war on taxpayers.

conformfailure · #44 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout

It's a myth that the Taliban tried to eradicate Opium production while they were in power. What happened is that they curbed production for a couple of years to drive the price up. They had huge surplusses in storage and so they created a false shortage so that it would be more profitable.

The Taliban still makes money off the drug trade.

If poppy production were legalized and regulated, the Taliban would lose a vital part of their funding.

Tell yourself anything to escape the obvious. America are in Afghanistan. It has been so-called liberated. Opium business is now better than ever. If you need to design such a elaborate explanation to escape the obvious, then have at it, but legalizing the drug isn't going to put a dent on the Taliban. They are supported by the Pakistani government. So this whole idea to legalize opium to fight the Taliban is rubbish. Legalizing it makes it easier to transport/traffic the drug.

Giving Pakistan a bottomline to stop supporting the Taliban is the way to fight them, not legalizing drugs.

Why can't Americans just burn the fields like the Taliban did? If we are at war with the Taliban, why is Blair efforting to make their ability to do it easier?

chrisw · #45 (**permalink**) 04-05-2007

The entire "War on Drugs" is the biggest BS front in the history of this country. It's not only retarded, it also goes against every tenant of "individual liberty".

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