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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2007
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Re: "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

Thank you, goodfella - incidently southeast asia - where most current pedophilia occurs - is a muslim hotbed. The fact that the most visible pedophiles are european or american (locals blend in) sure as hell is the best argument for Sharia justice and a Taliban that I can think of.

Americans and Europeans are already seen as sex-obsessed, evil and immoral - wonder where the locals would get that idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by agoodfella View Post
This is EXACTLY the kind of arrogant, inward-thinking, inward-looking, myopic, short-term thinking, "my-way-or-the-highway" thinking that has not only landed us in hot water around the world, but has contributed to the massive anti-American feeling around the world.

While America's past may not matter to the average American sitting at home stuffing our collective faces with a Big Mac watching American Idol, those very same foreign policies we consider to be "ancient history" are very real and very "real and now" for many nations (and their respective citizens) around the world.

We must acknowledge when America has had past missteps. This is clearly a situation which we must examine and, if warranted, apologize for. When America tries to espouse (what may seem to others as) grandiose ideals such as "democracy", "freedom", "equality", "humanity" and then turn around in the same breath and ignore situations such as this where we have literal or figurative "blood on our hands" -- we lose credibility (and friends) faster than you can say hypocrite.

Why is this even important you ask? These are the images and stories that get played over and over again in the hearts and minds of our enemies, those that mean us true and real harm --> from the Guantanamo Bay detention camps to Abu Ghraib, and yes, even back 60 years ago. We must set a better example. We are charged with a higher standard if we are to be a leader and a fighter / defender of freedom and democracy. When we go astray we MUST acknowledge this and correct our course of action.

Bear in mind that Bin Laden, Al Queda, other terrorists don't wake up one day, spin a "wheel of nations" and randomly pick the US to attack. They aren't mindless idiots marching off to their deaths as suicide bombers. Perhaps it would be easier if they were --> like the shooter at VT --> then we could somehow absolve ourselves of any responsibility, then we wouldn't have to ask the hard questions... like "why do they hate us?" "what have we done to deserve this?" Then perhaps we wouldn't need to delve into our own governments actions (or inactions) which, at a whim, can cause longstanding changes or harm to another nation (or peoples) seemingly out of sight and out of mind but those actions can have serious consequences (Iraq is the latest example, but history is replete with our handiwork around the world).

Why does this incident that happened 60 years ago even matter? Why should we, as Americans, give "two shits"? Because we need to start taking some ownership. We need to start asking the hard questions. We need to start repairing relationships. We need to start displaying some genuine humility, humanity. Remember:

"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2007
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Re: "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Thank you, goodfella - incidently southeast asia - where most current pedophilia occurs - is a muslim hotbed. The fact that the most visible pedophiles are european or american (locals blend in) sure as hell is the best argument for Sharia justice and a Taliban that I can think of.

Americans and Europeans are already seen as sex-obsessed, evil and immoral - wonder where the locals would get that idea.
Compared to people that practice female circumcision and wrap their women like mummies, I'm not surprised.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Evidently that doesn't solve the problem. We allowed women and girls to be raped - and women and girls are still getting raped. Hell, just a few years ago, a marine was arrested for kidnapping and raping a little girl in Japan - lone nut, but it doesn't help matters.

Should the US apologize? Offer reparations? Ignore this?
Ignore it. It may have been a trerrible thing, but it happened over 60 years ago.

And the idea of "reparations" is just silly...
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Ignore it. It may have been a trerrible thing, but it happened over 60 years ago.
We should ignore this because it happened 60 years ago? No matter how wrong we were? So to you it's just a matter of time before its ok to sweep something under the rug?

Let me ask you this, what is the statute of limitations here? 60 years? 6 years? last week?

and here's another question, what exactly does it cost us to acknowledge this mistake and apologize?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Evidently that doesn't solve the problem. We allowed women and girls to be raped - and women and girls are still getting raped. Hell, just a few years ago, a marine was arrested for kidnapping and raping a little girl in Japan - lone nut, but it doesn't help matters.

Should the US apologize? Offer reparations? Ignore this?
what is japans view of this? oh wait we were supposed to be on that too.....amongst building a nation....etc.....
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Thank you, goodfella - incidently southeast asia - where most current pedophilia occurs - is a muslim hotbed. The fact that the most visible pedophiles are european or american (locals blend in) sure as hell is the best argument for Sharia justice and a Taliban that I can think of.

Americans and Europeans are already seen as sex-obsessed, evil and immoral - wonder where the locals would get that idea.

yes they allow it to please us....
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
I assume this means you are for an immediate invasion of Darfur?

I for one would be behind a military response to end the darfur tragedy. but its funny how the UN works..the civil rights commission won’t do a thing but you want us to...where have I heard this before...Nato countries could step in...but they won’t... why not? So we are the answer when it’s convenient but not when we take action on our own.....whatever............
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

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Originally Posted by jpsartre12 View Post
Compared to people that practice female circumcision and wrap their women like mummies, I'm not surprised.
Yeah - agreed - I'm talking about realities here, not necesarily approving of them.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
Josepha's Avatar
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I for one would be behind a military response to end the darfur tragedy. but its funny how the UN works..the civil rights commission won’t do a thing but you want us to...where have I heard this before...Nato countries could step in...but they won’t... why not? So we are the answer when it’s convenient but not when we take action on our own.....whatever............
Pretty much how I feel about invading Iraq - no immediate threat, no WMD, run of the mill dictator - and , as the only secular power in the region, no connection with Osama. You justify invading Iraq because saddam's sons raped?!

I don't advocate invading Japan and destroying their infrastructure, then imposing a new form of govt on them - Pearl harbor was reason enough to do that once. This does deserve an acknowledgement, and an apology - or you would have us act no better than those sons of Saddam.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
Reread the article - these were not prostitutes. Many were forced by the govt. To say that women and girls taken during war and forced into brothels are prostitutes is like calling a robbery victim a philanthrope.

Excuse me, but prostitutes work in a brothel. HOW they became prostitutes in that brothel is usually not what a patron of that brothel thinks about when he goes there. You can't blame american soldiers for what the japanese government did.

If the government of Japan was complicent in forcing women to work in those brothels, then the onus is on them.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsartre12 View Post
It's news that soldiers frequented brothels?

Apparently it is to Josepha... I thought it was SOP...
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
incidently southeast asia - where most current pedophilia occurs - is a muslim hotbed. The fact that the most visible pedophiles are european or american (locals blend in) sure as hell is the best argument for Sharia justice and a Taliban that I can think of.

Americans and Europeans are already seen as sex-obsessed, evil and immoral - wonder where the locals would get that idea.
Now this is a different story and not at all connected with the 70 year old brothels that the GIs visited...

Here we can agree... the pedophiles that traffic in those locales should be prosecuted. No doubt about it. Incarcerated too... in their prisons...

But what if anything does this have to do with the american military?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

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Originally Posted by agoodfella View Post
We should ignore this because it happened 60 years ago? No matter how wrong we were? So to you it's just a matter of time before its ok to sweep something under the rug?

Let me ask you this, what is the statute of limitations here? 60 years? 6 years? last week?

and here's another question, what exactly does it cost us to acknowledge this mistake and apologize?
The Japanese government has refused to do anything about it. They were the ones that forced the women into the brothels. Why do you think the US should apologize? and goodfella? There have been brothels in war zones for as long as there have been wars. Should we apologize for all of them?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josepha View Post
I don't advocate invading Japan and destroying their infrastructure, then imposing a new form of govt on them - Pearl harbor was reason enough to do that once.

This does deserve an acknowledgement, and an apology - or you would have us act no better than those sons of Saddam.
we destroyed japan's infrastructure in 1945... and then proceeded to occupy their country for ... well... we're still there aren't we?

No it doesn't... There's a BIG difference between raping women taken off the street and going to a brothel.

But... I have no clue about brothels in Iraq... do they even have them?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2007
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Re: Forced sex okayed for US troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStripey1 View Post
The Japanese government has refused to do anything about it. They were the ones that forced the women into the brothels. Why do you think the US should apologize? and goodfella? There have been brothels in war zones for as long as there have been wars. Should we apologize for all of them?
First, the US government and military's involvement with regards to the brothels is not 100% clear as the article suggests. At a minimum, the US was complicit to the extent that tacit approval was given -- the issue of whether or not the US KNEW about this is not in question. At worst, we were passive participants who looked the other way.

Did I say that we should apologize for every brothel ever created? No. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Further, this situation refers to the period of US occupation in Japan which is clearly POST-WAR. So this "well war is hell and shit happens" excuse doesn't apply. Further, what is clear with regards to these so-called "comfort women" is that many if not most of these women who served in these so-called "brothels" were women of both Japanese and other Asian nationalities who were taken against their will from countries that Japan occupied. These weren't "whores" looking to make a quick buck. These were innocent victims of war perpetrated by a brutal imperial army with an official policy for the creation of sex slaves to service the Japanese imperial army. This was absolutely a crime against humanity by an reasonable measure. If the US was a willing partner and helped perpetuate this policy post-war, then yes, we ABSOLUTELY need to apologize for it. To what extent is unclear as I said before.

Even it it WERE in a time of war, are you saying that since things such as rape and murder happen in a time of war "we should not give a shit"?

Why should we apologize? Please re-read my comments in post #29.

Quote:
This is clearly a situation which we must examine and, if warranted, apologize for.
I believe this is a situation which must be examined further. Once the facts become clear, and if warranted, the US should apologize.

Last edited by agoodfella; 04-29-2007 at 05:22 PM.
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