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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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AjaxPress AjaxPress is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
I will bet you a bottle of jack that that lady will be the next president

Ill PM you the address to mail my bottle to after her acceptance speach
That won't make her a liberal. Here's something you ought to understand.

Democratic does not equal liberal.

FYI, if Hillary is the Dem nominee I think the chances of a Republican president go up a lot.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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AjaxPress AjaxPress is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It was an open question; thanks for responding.

A follow on question: Presented with the same technology and choice, do you think a Democrat would elect to use it?
It depends on the Democrat. Theres a few that I'm sure would do it and a couple that I don't think would use it.

Most of the Presidential nominees would use it in order to "not appear weak" in TWAT
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"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It was an open question; thanks for responding.

A follow on question: Presented with the same technology and choice, do you think a Democrat would elect to use it?
I don't know. It would depend on the democrat. One more question: why does it matter? Democrats and republicans are not the only ideologies from which you can choose.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Well, think about it.

You don't trust the government to do "the right thing" simply because they have this technology.

What logic backs that point of view?

It would have to be the same logic which would tell you that the government is going to use the military to kill Americans, simply because they have that ability...
Did Bush and Cheney do the right thing when they were saying with absolute certainty that Iraq had WMDs and that we needed to invade because of it?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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O'Sullivan Bere O'Sullivan Bere is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I don't have a problem with it.

Then again, I'm not one to live in abject fear about what the government might do simply because they have access to the technology. If that were a reasonable argument, we'd all be living in fear of the US military...
I really don't have a problem with it either and I think a Rep or Dem administration would support it.

Other nations will develop them so the privacy factor will be nil. The US might as well keep up with the Joneses and get the best use of it and there are plenty of them.

If the government wants to track anyone, they can already do is so easily. Merely carrying a mobile phone allows the government to know where I am at any time. Someday I am waiting for divorce courts to see evidence of cheaters not only going to the paramour's home but show the whole list of embarrasing road maps to where they go and where they get off. New Jersey just allowed E-Z Pass records (automated bridge and road toll charging system) into evidence this week for that purpose. Of course, private investigators can already do tailing and personal data searches, and so certainly could any government agent. IP searches can tell where you type on the computer. Helicopters use heat scans to examine homes for marijuana cultivation. Infrared and other technologies are readily available. People run around with camera phones 24/7. Embarassing footage can wind up on YouTube or elsewhere on the Internet in a flash. And I'm just scratching the surface of the amount of 'toys' out there that could examine me right to the bone--literally (just think about the new airport x-rays for example). Basically, securing actual privacy is a quaint concept, and exists only because people just aren't interested enough in documenting each other.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
CowboyTed CowboyTed is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Bill was in charge for 8 years and he didn't use satelites to spy on US people.

This whole thing is funny anyway. The conservative here have no problem on being spied apon by their own goverment but have a huge problem if the same goverment tries to bring in Universal Healthcare because they don't trust them..
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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O'Sullivan Bere O'Sullivan Bere is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyTed View Post
Bill was in charge for 8 years and he didn't use satelites to spy on US people.

This whole thing is funny anyway. The conservative here have no problem on being spied apon by their own goverment but have a huge problem if the same goverment tries to bring in Universal Healthcare because they don't trust them..
The Fourth Amendment provides protection against unreasonable searches and seizures with the US government. Therefore it would be acting unconstitutionally to use it in violation of that proscription. They could of course go ahead and violate it, but they already have the manpower, technology and resources to do that if they desire. The Amendment gives protection that if they do it, then they cannot use the evidence in court in a criminal case and they can be sued in civil court for damages--including punitive damages--for a civil rights violation. The big plus on the last part is that the US Constitution preserves the right for jury trials in a civil case whilst that has gone out the window in the UK and Ireland where a judge instead hears the case. Thus, the people rather than a government agent will decide liability.

You make a good point on the second part as for those who love Big Brother insofar as not minding giving up their rights for security but have a problem with it on the health care issue.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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SamInTheSouth SamInTheSouth is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Me, I just don't trust the government that much.
I'll second that.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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ViPER ViPER is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
I'll second that.
This administration has proven they will abuse power with great ignorance, achieve nothing with great effort, perfect stupidity with inept ability and no I don't trust them.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Do you think a Democrat President would put a stop to it?
In general? Yes. Honestly, I think most Republican presidents would as well. It's clearly a huge violation of privacy, and I think there are very few potential presidents who would support such a thing.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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goober goober is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Has anyone explained how we are going to spot terrorists in the US with these satellites?
If a terrorist can get through airport security, how are you going to spot him from space?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
I really don't have a problem with it either and I think a Rep or Dem administration would support it.

Other nations will develop them so the privacy factor will be nil. The US might as well keep up with the Joneses and get the best use of it and there are plenty of them.

If the government wants to track anyone, they can already do is so easily. Merely carrying a mobile phone allows the government to know where I am at any time. Someday I am waiting for divorce courts to see evidence of cheaters not only going to the paramour's home but show the whole list of embarrasing road maps to where they go and where they get off. New Jersey just allowed E-Z Pass records (automated bridge and road toll charging system) into evidence this week for that purpose. Of course, private investigators can already do tailing and personal data searches, and so certainly could any government agent. IP searches can tell where you type on the computer. Helicopters use heat scans to examine homes for marijuana cultivation. Infrared and other technologies are readily available. People run around with camera phones 24/7. Embarassing footage can wind up on YouTube or elsewhere on the Internet in a flash. And I'm just scratching the surface of the amount of 'toys' out there that could examine me right to the bone--literally (just think about the new airport x-rays for example). Basically, securing actual privacy is a quaint concept, and exists only because people just aren't interested enough in documenting each other.
Not true. Cell phones do not broadcast your location, especially if you turn them off. IP searches only tell where your access point into the Internet is; it does not tell where your computer is located. Heat scans for marijuana cultivation have been found unconstitutional. There are no X-rays in airports (that are deliberately used on humans).

What a terrifying thing that so many are willing to give up their privacy without even a little fight.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
I'll second that.
See? There can be common ground between liberals and conservatives!

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
bigTlilODD bigTlilODD is offline
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Wait, you think they've just now started to do this? Have you not seen google earth?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2007
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Re: More "safety" from Big Brother

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
In general? Yes. Honestly, I think most Republican presidents would as well. It's clearly a huge violation of privacy, and I think there are very few potential presidents who would support such a thing.
How is it an invasion of privacy?
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