yeah its societys fault not personal choice... grumble

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

It seems simple for many posters who have health care to place it in a position of 'earn it or go without'. I don't have any insight as to what creates that attitude other than recognizing posts that convey a complete lack of compassion based on 'I did it, let those without do it'. Fact based arguments of other countries providing universal health care at a lower per-capita cost basis than currently limited private health care in the US seemingly fall on deaf ears, as do fact based arguments of US industry becoming more competitive without carrying the overheads of private insurance as displayed by the demise of the US vehicle industry.

The fact of the matter is that only a portion of the US work force lacks health care. Those who are unable, for whatever economic reason, to provide their own health insurance and work, again for whatever reason, for employers who do not provide health care insurance.

The wealthy all have health care insurance through board memberships, owned companies, individual policies or pay cash. Even the dumbest small-time investor knows how to put together an LLC to manage his/her investments where two members consisting of the investor and spouse qualify it for the same private health care insurance rates as giant companies.

The disadvantaged all have government furnished health care coverage by virtue of their economic circumstances. Volunteer with any organization assisting the disadvantaged (probably not a realistic consideration considering the complete lack of any compassion expressed by many posters) and you'll discover how extensive that social net is.

So that leaves those workers who for whatever reason are unable to afford private policies and receive no employer furnished health care insurance. While it sounds nice to say I improved myself, changed jobs and received company furnished health insurance and everyone else should do the same, that's just not a realistic conclusion in a declining economy. The effects of migration to a service economy where service employers offer no health care benefits, outsourcing of skilled and professional jobs, companies vacating US facilities (40% of corporate profits are now derived from non-US operations) and declining education quality defy a majority of people without health care coverage the opportunity to better him or herself.

Congratulations America, we're again shooting ourselves in the foot with the 'I've got mine, screw everybody else' attitude. Push those workers who are unable to provide themselves with heath care into the lowest economic tier of society where government funded health care paying for the most expensive private health care in the world can take care of them. We're once again trying to prove we have zero long-range planning ability for the needs and requirements our own citizenry while compounding our world prominent financial irresponsibility.

Im glad you understand our lack of compassion.

If we give health care to all that means my plan will go down in quality. Socialized medicine turns into long waits and the goverment establishing your needs not doctors and denials.

Why do people need lawyers and have to wait 3 times being refused for SSI disability to sue etc. Because the goverment runs it. They will tell you flat out everyone gets refused forst few times.

i dont want to wait 4 extra months for a mri because we met our quota for the year. Oh the budget ends fiscally in oct .. dont have a heart attack in septemeber wait til the new year starts.

I dont want to pay for the slackers period. Socialized medicine does not work.
The rich will always have good priivate coverage . the middle class will get screwed and our coverage will worsen with free hillary care or whatever brand is slapped on it. the policy we have now will change to policy for the masses and cheap crap health care. i like what i have.

they should build an island where all you people that whine about the poor can live and give all your money to support.

ill keep mine in a lock box like al gore

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

I'm still trying to figure out who these individuals you speak of are.
Everyone I know who works has insurance supplied by their employers or else they have medical assistance supplied by the government.

Could the "millions without insurance" statistics actually include illegals ?

While I do think our medical insurance practices/policies needs a kick in the ass, I still don't want our government getting involved......There has to be a better solution to the problem, and the government is far from being the solution.

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

Truth sire Truth

the only solution people are offering is big goverment..

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

And the answer is.......NO !

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

....and the poor? oh. you'd just as well move them to an island mis? along with all those who'd like to help them out? yeah. i think he understands your compassion perfectly.

this really is about the differences in thinking of the two parties. inclusive v exclusive. let them eat cake v let's have a bake sale. no one's going to change perspectives here but there are folks among us that can't go the hospital when they are sick. as a country, we should be able to do a whole lot better than that.

s

I was being cynical.. i dont want to really put people on an island that is a whimsical satyrical view.

We lasted since the beginning of this nation without free healthcare. people are not dying in the streets. That is what was promised when we ended welfare programs as you MAY recall.

im sorry but if we make it EASY for the poor to stay in their lower status they wont strive to be better. i think the social programs actually enslave people rather then help people.

Poor people can work they just find it easier to collect a check. not all cases I know but a vast majority arent in disability status.

Dont pull up the extreme cases pick out your average people. People that are layed off find it easier to milk the system for the 50 so weeks they are ENTITLED too then they will look for a job. Dont say this isnt soo All my friend that were laid off always pulled this then looked for a job. Best money is free money they say.

its that mentality that im talking about and it makes more sense for them to
take it easy and get free pay and rush to get a job right before benefits run out.

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

although my perception is that extreme cases can be interpretted several ways, we 'can' speak of the 'average' joe.

what about wal-mart? shouldn't they help their employees with health insurance? i find it rather abhorrent that good old sam walton won't hire folks full time because then he'd have to provide health insurance. the average joe wants to work. i suspect more would take part time work at wal-mart if they could get basic health care.

i say fuck wal-mart!

s

Buy this man a beer !

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

I'll agree....Fuck Wal-Mart. The people made a choice to work there and the people themselves can make the difference......
What do you think Wal-Mart would do if a majority or all of their employees started walking/striking ?

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Anyone who thinks freedom comes cheap, please put the blindfold on and stand against the wall.

Many times I believe Americans will have to take back the country and start a new government.

One of two things would happen.

1. Fire the employees, you can always find someone who will take the job.

2. Actually give insurance to the employees. In which case prices at Wal Mart will go through the roof, and ordinary folks will go to Cosco, Meijer's, or some other big box store to buy thier cheap Chinese junk. Wal mart will then go out of business.

Either way, the workers will not have coverage.

look at gm ..

they are on strike

I heard on the news i think for every 1 person putting into the union 7 are retired taking fromt the 1 putting in... how long do you think the young will put up with that ? i did not hear the whole situtation had to do with healthcare.

I think your walmart scenario holds true.

I think gm needs to draw the line also.

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Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

Click here to fight for the health of our kids.

~@~

On the surface, this sounds like a noble and worthy cause. On the surface, ... !

That is until we get to the meat of the issue, which is providing Children health care benefits through the sale and resulting taxation of a deadly drug.

Drug Scheduling @ DEA, Drug Scheduling

(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.

As Harmful as we now know Tobacco to be, even to the non-consumer, it will never vanish.
WHY? Because it's a Cash Cow !

Senate Panel Approves Huge Tobacco Tax To Fund Child Healthcare ~ 20 Jul 2007

Does Tobacco qualify to be classified as a Schedule I drug ?

If President Bush really cared for the health and welfare of our citizens, he not only should veto this legislation but,
direct the Congress of the United States to uphold the Controlled Substances Act known as Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970.
Designate Tobacco as a schedual I drug and remove this Cash Cow from the budgetary process.

Perhaps the One Trillion Dollars this administration has given to Blackwater over the previous 6 years could have gone towards such lofty goals as providing
All Americans high quality and affordable health care so that no child would be without health care.

Speaking of Health Care, Does Tobacco qualify to be classified as a Schedule I drug ?
Senate Panel Approves Huge Tobacco Tax To Fund Child Healthcare

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So this is how liberty ends... with thunderous applause
In a Democracy, Silence is Permission

It's amazing how simple minded a lot of you people are. As if changing one's social status were as easy as changing your socks. If that's the case you should all be millionaires. Not to mention your oversimplification of the recipients of government welfare. Don't even acknowledge the complexity of single parent households, so quick to condemn single parents as fuck-ups who deserve to suffer.

Yes compassion is dead in your ranks, I don't think it was ever alive to begin with, as is evident in your arguments.

I certainly hope your children don't screw up, as based on the heartless philosophies espoused throughout this thread, they'll be shit out of luck when they come a knocking.

Tobacco a Schedule 1 drug? Hmm, having tried many Schedule 1 drugs, I'd have to say that tobacco is the most addictive, and provides the least amount of reward, with more adverse health effects. Banning tobacco would probably be extremely beneficial, yet I'm sure the tobacco lobby won't let that happen anytime soon. So as long as tobacco is legal, why not tax it, especially if increasing the price might reduce usage? Poor smokers without health insurance shouldn't be smoking anyway...

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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."

-Thomas Jefferson