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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

How do they exceed that of other groups that have come here? I also often get the feeling that there is circular reasoning with it (not meant to knock what you say, but to give another perspective on it). If someone lives in an area saturated with one ethnicity, the odds are likely that the crime rates will show a high rate of that ethnicity. I live in Pennsylvania. If I travelled into the large "Pennsylvania Dutch" areas near me, a good number of the people are descended from Germans. Some of the Appalachia areas have high Scots-Irish descent. Some of the steel and mill towns are heavily populated with Polish, Irish, Italian, etc, descendants depending on the town and its history. In each area, a criminal docket or prison catalogue will show that demographic.

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James Hoban. Irish Architect. Member of the Royal Dublin Society. Hoban designed and built the White House and based it upon the top exterior and interior two floors of Leinster House, then known as Kildare House, which is now the current Irish Parliament building. He was also a supervisory architect of the US Capitol Building.

I guess my initial focus was on the 'bad' and that obscures the overall. I have seen 'ethnic' neighborhoods in cities and towns that are most definitely an asset to our nation and certainly make up what it is (a nation of immigrants, but then again what nation isn't?). I have, however, seen over the years some really nice places (San Diego for example) that are becoming the Mexican annex. And if you don't mind Mexican culture, I suppose it's the place for you. I didn't like what it was becoming. Maybe it's my own personal sensitivity to Mexican culture and the dislike of it. I see things in the culture re-located here (U.S.) that reflect the old country. Arguments to allow immigration always cite corruption in government and law enforcement, but nobody seems to recognize that the government and law officers of Mexico are Mexican. They are not invaders from Mars. Mexicans created their own corruption and loose interpretation of social responsibility and it travels here with every immigrant. I hate to become divisive about it, but when I witness an apologist U.S. allowing special priveleges for illegal Mexican immigrants and blaming their ills on their former nation's corruption, coupled with their incessant desire to hang the Mexican flag on their houses, their car mirrors, their tattoos, I have to wonder what country I live in. I'm especially concerned about people like Navarrette and organizations like MeCha, and Hispanic Heritage Month, and all of the other things that are the opposite of every effort this country has made to become less divisive since the abolition of slavery. In a nutshell, this isn't Mexico. If you love Mexico so much, then move to Mexico. (the 'you' being the rhetorical 'you' and not OB)

The guy has admitted to enough to convict him of vandalism, and the photographic evidence of the president desecrating flags (by clearly violating the flag rules), kind of weakens the "I was only enforcing the law" defense.

So I think he should be convicted of vandalism, and one could make the argument that this was a hate crime, as he seemed to exhibit animosity towards Mexican-Americans.

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“The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine.”

Senator Thad Cochran, Mississippi (R)
on McCain

“I decided I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger.”
Senator Pete Domenici, New Mexico (R)
on McCain

“My anger did not help my campaign ... People don’t like angry candidates very much.”

McCain on McCain

I get what you are saying. I come from an immigrant family myself (Irish) but I don't expect 'special privileges' for us. All we expect is the same opportunities and accountabilities as anyone else.

I am interested in your experience because the US is a big country and people in different parts see and experience different things, a point often overlooked. I've never been to San Diego or Yuma where you mentioned you lived although I intend to do so as some point (if not Yuma, then at least AZ properly because I have only been to the AZ side of the Hoover Dam).

On the East Coast, you will see all sorts of Irish, Italian, German, Polish, etc, tee shirts, bumper stickers, etc. If you ever visit the New Jersey beaches, it is actually custom there to fly an American flag first and below that the flag of their ethnicity. It isn't a sign of allegiance to somewhere else, but a positive tradition of a social nature. Ethnic associations and clubs are common but they are social and fun. I'm not Italian, but I go to the St Anthony's club near me for the bar and good food. I also have a membership to a club near me that is associated with the Byzantine Rite Catholic Church for which I have no ethnic or religious connection, but the whole club is just a cool place to dodge the pub laws for some fun. Even right here in my work complex are Italian and Chinese restaurants, a Greek shop, etc. It works out really well for the most part and leaves much to experience.

There are plenty of Hispanic groups but I haven't seen anything hostile or noticed the MeCha movement you are describing. I am not too familiar with the MEChA movement. I googled it and it doesn't seem to advocate for reannexing lost territories to Mexico and is more of a cultural pride, self-help, self-advancement thing.

http://www.azteca.net/aztec/mecha/faq.html

However, for any non-citizens who would advocate the re-annexation of former Mexican territory lost in the Texas revolution and the Mexican War (I haven't met any Mexican who does, but I am sure there are the odd ones who might out of the tens of millions), that isn't acceptable to me. People have the right to free speech so long as it it peaceful, but don't think it is wise to give anyone who holds those views permanent visas or green cards (maybe a restricted visitors visa to see relatives or do business provided no secession advocacy occurs) and certainly not citizenship. To be admitted here, IMO, a person cannot advocate for the partial secession of the country.

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James Hoban. Irish Architect. Member of the Royal Dublin Society. Hoban designed and built the White House and based it upon the top exterior and interior two floors of Leinster House, then known as Kildare House, which is now the current Irish Parliament building. He was also a supervisory architect of the US Capitol Building.

I think Vet guy was an assclown and wears his Army Vet status as some sort of justification/excuse for being a shithead.

I wonder if the Mexican bar owner even knew he was breaking a law or rule.

Probably not, and even if he did, at least he was cool enough to hang the American flag as well as the Mexican (albeit in a manner inconsistent with the official rules).

I don't think there were any under/overtones of rebeliousness toward the United States in the bar owner's actions. I just think he's trying to operate a business catering toward Mexicans in a Mexican part of town and hanging that flag out there meant no more or less to him than the piñatas, sombreros, and maracas you're likely to find in any Mexican restaurant in America. Certainly there was no insidiousness to it. If anything the bar owner showed more dignity and respect for the laws of America than either the raging asshole Vet guy or the news crew that filmed the act.

I wonder how much of that act the news crew that filmed it was in on (and to me it's clear Vet guy was putting on a show for the cameras). I would imagine that Vet guy was probably the person who called for a news van and the news van showed up at the scene (on a slow news day) knowing full well that a demonstration of some sort would be forthcoming.

I wonder of the news people put Vet guy up to it, or were involved in any way in the situation unfolding like it did.

Whatever. I hope Vet guy gets slamed for vandalism.

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...Old Europe, a once-dominant region now reduced to sucking at the geopolitical teat of America... they spent the better part of the last millennium conquering the world and taking the good stuff home with them... And what do they get for their troubles? Ungrateful colonies demanding their independence. And after you taught them how to play cricket!...

-Jon Stewart

My entire point was that 'flag laws' are nonexistent and a ridiculous idea. How you got out of my posts that I believe they are real enforceable laws is beyond me.

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"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

You are either one or the other....stop with the BS mexi mixcrap.

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"I admire Senator McCain greatly."
Howard Dean on McCain

"I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House."
Hillary Clinton on McCain

"I believe the right approach begins with the proposal put forward by…Senator McCain."
Barack Obama on McCain

"Higher taxes will only lead to poverty dependents."
sumyd

From what I understand - the news van had been there for several days, and the bar owner had been informed he was breaking the law and refused to remove the flag. The local police did not get involved to the point necessary to stop the event from becoming circus-like in the local media, and now a Vet has taken a vigalante approach. But being its come to national attention - I sure hope the bar owner puts his Mexican flag up there again, I want to see his store over run with a thousand plus angry vets tearing the whole friggin flag pole down on his store. And if they choose to put this vets ass in jail, its only going to fester the wound. Mexicans better get it straight, flying their flag in disrespect to the country they are coming to partake of ain't going to win over any hearts and minds.

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"I admire Senator McCain greatly."
Howard Dean on McCain

"I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House."
Hillary Clinton on McCain

"I believe the right approach begins with the proposal put forward by…Senator McCain."
Barack Obama on McCain

"Higher taxes will only lead to poverty dependents."
sumyd

Why do you assume that vets, specifically, have a tendency to despise free speech and property rights? Do you know a lot of vets personally?

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A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image.

Someone should tell them that bad press can be prevented by not abusing prisoners in the first place. Censorship is only needed to preserve the good reputation of those who have tortured and/or murdered already.

This has nothing to do with free speech.

Why do you despise the rule of law?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

I agree with Steve - the Vet could have approached the situation with informative diplomacy (or maybe he did and we didn't see that part as the vid was much later then his initial discovery).

However, if they charge the Vet - then they should charge the owner as well - as both were on the video found to be breaking the rules.

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I despise it in this case because it clearly violates a much more important law (namely, property rights and perhaps free speech), and because I find it unjust.

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A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image.

Someone should tell them that bad press can be prevented by not abusing prisoners in the first place. Censorship is only needed to preserve the good reputation of those who have tortured and/or murdered already.

It has nothing to do with free speech.

The funny thing is that, had the guy only been flying the Mexican flag, there'd have been no problem. The problem arose because the guy flew the American Flag below the Mexican flag...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":

Ok, it's good we managed to sort out fantasty from reality in this debate.

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THE GOVERNMENT HAS SENT ME