Thanks, George! We couldn't have done it without ya!

What's the point of having a borrowing ceiling if they are just going to raise it once they reach it?

::cough:: bullshit ::cough::

__________________
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

President George W. Bush, 8-5-2004

Carolina Politics Online

THIS IS REAL HOPE AND CHANGE!

Oh and the Canadian dollar hit $1.10 USD yesterday (an all time high). Thanks George. I'm gonna make a trip down to Plattsburgh NY to get some stuff.

Our economy is ever more fragile.

Saying that the economy is doing great is like saying that you're still getting a paycheck even though you owe a year's salary to the bank.

Biden and others are not kidding when they say China holds our mortgage.


What is happening now is the case of overextending today with total disregard for future consequenses. Our children will pay for the war on terror likely for their entire lifetimes. The burden they inherit will not only be monetary (to pay back the debt) but it will also be diplomatic (to restore America's reputation as a noble nation).

It will take decades to repair what has transpired in the last 5 years.

__________________

Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Allow me to be optimistic. I remember the same situation at the end of the 1980's, a hopeless national debt that would leave our grandchildren penniless. Yet we managed to pay it down by the end of the 1990's. So it has happened before, let's hope we can do it again.

__________________

Don't startle him, Joe - it's almost full!

More utterly unhinged hysterics from people that don't know a damn thing about economics. The nominal debt amount is an absolutely meaningless number. Here are some key facts:

1. only 5.0 Trillion of the 9.0 Trillion has any economic significance. It is the publicly held debt, whereas the reaming 4 Trillion is just meaningless IOUs the government has written to yourself.

2. The publicly held debt has increased by 52% since the end of fiscal 2001 (from 3.3 trillion to 5.0 trillion)

3. The intragovernmental debt (brought to you by all those lovely social programs of FDR and LBJ) increased by 58% (from 2.5 trillion to 3.9 trillion). Meaning that the portion of the debt due to social programs is increasing faster than the on-budget portion.

4. As a percentage of GDP (the only meaningful measure of the debt) the publicly held debt increased from 33% to 36% (an 11% increase, and still far below the average of the last 25 years, a period of time which has seen unprecedent economic strength and prosperity in this country).

5. Total "debt" as a percentage of GDP increased from 57% to 65% of GDP (a 13% increase), but also below the average of the last 25 years).

6. Most of these percentage gain increases were front loaded in the 2002-2004 period when we had a recession and before the full implementation of the Bush tax rate reductions. Since then, with accelerated growth and declinging annual budget deficits, there has actually been a DECLINE in the the debt as a percentage of GDP (over the last 3 years the economy has grown faster than the debt)

So yet another bit of economic data that lefties have absolutely NO clue how to interpret or put into perspective.

__________________
"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane

Might I inquire as to how we're going to achieve that with our negative payment balance and present trend of debt accumulation to fund a vastly bloated military with an economy primarily based on consumer consumption? I see no new wealth entering the country nor any indication of the means to reverse those trends, actually quite the opposite.

Hopefully this post won't bring out those touting White House percentages of cooked GDP and prayers as the answer.

Whoops, too late.

Because only ignorant fools with regard to economics equate a negative balance of "payments" with a net negative in GDP. Out country generates far more overall wealth domestically each year then our net negative balance of payments with others. Out net national wealth continues to increase, because even though we may buy more FROM other countries than we SELL to them, the net impact is a relatively miniscule amount of our OVERALL Gross Domestic Product.

__________________
"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane

Barvo Marcus - these "sky is falling" threads about the debt are so frustrating and exhausting to wade through.

It looks like a balanced budget - perhaps a small balance on the plus side - for next year. However, we may have Hillary and a left-wing congress in charge; not a pleasant prospect. I assume you have seen Rangel's plan for increasing taxes? 1970s all over again.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Yeah, like the people (some on the right included) who have been decrying our trade deficit as unsustainable for a quarter century, who haven't quite figured out based on REALITY what the hell they are talking about.

And the increase in the publicly held debt in fiscal 2007 was less than 1% of GDP...that's a friggin' rounding error given the magnitude of the numbers involved! But yeah, the end is near!!!!!!

__________________
"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane

The Islamic countries, China and Russia have a deadly WMD against USA which can be used easily to destroy USA without polluting anything and without directly killing anybody.

Whenever China will return its trillions of stored dollars back to USA and Russia and Islamic countries shift dollar to euro in oil business ... this means good by USA.

By the way - this threat is one reason for the Bush wars.

Calling a budget balanced with probably $200B more of supplementary, off-budget debt for Afghanistan/Iraq and another $175B of internal debt from SS collections is contrary to any fiscal realism I've ever been exposed to, but since I'm in the private sector that probably explains the difference in opinion. That's about as responsible as tax cuts in a time of government expansion, debt expansion and no domestic demand for capital expansion other than the internal service sector. But you folks go right ahead, print more money and dream on about the definition of fiscal responsibility.

Another backwards third-world country heard from. Consider something you are apparently oblivious to; anything that would substantially harm the U.S. economy would devestate the economies of China, Russia, and Islamic countries


That's so idiotic I almost spit up the water I was drinking. What fucking logic are you using that has us waging war and antogonizing people that you supposedly think could easily destroy us merely by selling our currency? Pretty stupid reasoning there.

My god, you really are utterly ignorant and clueless about what your talking about. The supplementals for the Iraq war are not "off budget", there are merely OUTSIDE of the annual appropriations process, the are still factored into the calculation of the annual deficit (it is why the are called SUPPLEMENTALS).

If you bothered to learn a thing about how the Federal Budget works, you would understand that each year, the standard appropriations process results in appropriations bills for each of the Federal Agencies. For nearly every single agency to a greater or lesser extent, more money is approved by congress throughout the year on an ongoing basis separate from this initial appropriations. They are called SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS. They are NOT "off budget", there are merely outside the start of year formal budget process.

This is no different from the SUPPLEMENTAL appropriations that are routinely passed for things such as Highway bills, Disasters (inlucding 90% of the money appropriated for hurricane Katrina relief and recovery), etc. They are all SUPPLEMENTALS but are most definitely included in the annual deficit calculations. DUH!!!!!

__________________
"It's a good feeling to shoot a bad guy. Something you democrats would never understand. Americans are homesteaders, we want a safe home, keep the money we make, and shoot bad guys!"

----Denny Crane

Ha! - this beats all hysteria posts here...and the least intelligible.
You are leaving out one teensy detail there "Analyst"....the American consumer feeds them all - without America's insatiable appetite for cheap stuff - China falls flat on their face.

I watch the US public debt held by other countries and over the last year China has leveled out in accumulating US debt, Japan has actually reduced its holdings while the lapdog UK has increased its holdings by over $200B. The November report will be most interesting to see how the US debt peddlers are faring.

I don't think China/Japan will upset the apple cart for a few mores years, until China raises its per-capita income to absorb a reasonable portion of their industrial production, and no longer requires the 18% of declining USD value it exports to the US. By then the cheap labor will be in the US and they can both service this market with capital investments here rather than shipping it.

Something other than USD for oil trade is the primary concern.