I own a company and have employees that collectively earn far more than I do.

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"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to
change it." -- Barack Obama

Back on the topic (crazy concept, I know):

During my trip to Argentina (got back yesterday), one of the organizations we visited was a collective that the people of a particularly poor neighborhood in Buenos Aires had formed - it consisted of ~250 families with an average of 5 members each. These people live at a level of poverty that we in the US, Canada, and Europe can't really understand. They've grouped together to pool their resources, and have developed small businesses to provide income for the group. Everyone who is a member both contributes (via work and/or income) and receives benefits from (food) the collective. At first glance, it makes great sense for them, and there are many of these types of organizations around.

What is disturbing is the amount of support that organizations like this receive from Chavez and the Venezuelan government, and the amount of pro-Chavez propaganda hanging on the walls (as well as the requisite Che Guevara stuff). Chavez is doing a fine job of organizing the poor, and not just in his own country. We in the First World will need to be extremely careful. Our actions have spoken very loudly to these people, and they have not been given any reason to like us.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Meanwhile, In Chavez's Venezuela, inflation is close to 25%, crime is out of control, and people stand in line for hours to buy bread and chicken.

He's doing a helluva job.

Inflating his own ego, that is.

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Probably has something to do with the fact that we don't have Bush trying to amend the constitution so that he can stay in power forever. If he tried that I would be protesting on the streets.

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"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent."
-John Calvin

Lmfao

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Losing faith in Western Civilization one liberal at a time.

Actually... that would be an interesting experiment... to see how many people actually would get off their arses to do that.

Of course, to make it a better parallel, we'd have to go back to shortly after September 11th 2001 when Bush's popularity ratings were comprable to Chavez.

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

Actually what Chavez was doing was not necessarily 'power for life' - it was just taking away any limits on the amount of terms a president can serve. No different than Canada, the UK, or Australia. And Chavez still would have had to win elections to stay in power.

As far as im concerned if you are not already protesting in the streets over the way Bush has handled affairs over the last 6 years, there is almost nothing he could do that would get you to protest.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

There is still no denying that Chavez has made improvements in the overall quality of life in comparison to the Washington backed government that forced corrupt lending institutions on these people. Nobody is claiming that he has eliminated inflation or crime..... but go back to the mid 90's and inflation in Venezuela was absolutely out of control.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Andrew, didn't you know that if a left-winger can't fix EVERYTHING it shows basic flaws in his ideology and methods?

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

As opposed to the "control" it is under now?

With the verifiable problems in his own country, do you think his foreign adventures (like spending almost a billion dollars trying to buy a seat on the security council) are at all defensible?

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

When his citizen's cant get basic necessities and he's spending a billion dollars on his own ego, don't you think that is a problem?

Or does his leftist posturing forgive his excess?

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Of course not. But do I think that Venezuela is better of because of Chavez then they would be without him? Yes absolutely. That's called pragmatism.

Of course, him spending billions of dollars on "his ego" as you put it pales in comparison to plenty of other wasteful spending I can think of, that actually affects me much more directly.

I was hoping against hope that this referendum would fail. And now it has. Step in the right direction.

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

From what Hugo has been saying, it's not over, though. He's mentioned that he wants to continue to pursue these changes through more expedient means.

His evolution toward tinpot dictator may have been slightly slowed, but it hasn't been stopped.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Yeah... it will be interesting to see where he goes from now. The thing is, a lot of his diehard supporters either abstained or voted no on this... Apparently the Venezuelan people understand what they want.

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

But does Hugo?

That's the question. We'll have to see what more expedient path he is looking at and see where he goes from here.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum