Matt,

Here is the inflation in Venezuela since the mid 90's as measured by consumer and producer prices -



Venezuela - Inflation

There is no question inflation in Venezuela is high. But, that is exactly what happens when you spend gobs of government money on infrastructure to improve the quality of life for some of the poorest people in the world. And life has been improved as a matter of fact.

Where has anybody claimed Venezuela is some utopia?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

That money actually helped people. It is defensible on those grounds alone.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Well, if he continues to respect democracy, as he has been doing, he won't have much of a choice.

My ex-roommate.... but then, he thinks that Soviet Russia was pretty cushy, wouldn't mind living in Mao's China, and thinks that FARC controled regions of Colombia are some sort of Garden of Eden 2.0

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"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

Yes, it sure helped the 38 people murdered in Caracas in a 48 hour period. It sure helped feed the folks who wait hours for basic staples.....

I know you'll never accept it, Andrew, but Chavez's actions make it quite clear that Chavez's number one priority is Chavez.

Matt

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So...? Plenty of politicians who are fully ego-motivated can accomplish actually quite good things.

Does motivation matter?

__________________
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

The motivation matters because Chavez (and his cheerleaders) trumpet his motivation as a man of the people.

Matt

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I'm sorry? Why does that make it matter?

Speaking pragmatically, of course.

__________________
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
Matthew 5:9

Matt, you cant expect Chavez to make a perfect nation. Nobody is able to undo the colonial and corrupt history of latin america overnight. Your murder stats are irrelevent, just like the mall shooting in Omaha is irrelevent to the presidency of George Bush. You are smarter than that Matt,

On the contrary, i think he is a politician like any other who wants power and glory. I acknowledge that. But his actions and the improvements he has made in the quality of life in Venezuela speak for themselves, beyond the fact that he is politician, he is also motivated by genuine bolivarian ideas. He is fiercely interested in Venezuelan independence and the improvement of life for those victimized by colonial powers.

You seem to lack any genuine perspective on the history of this part of the world.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Really? Care to provide some hard documentation of the actual improvement at street level in Venezuela?

Matt

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unstats | Millennium Indicators
Human Development Report 2006/2007 - Country Fact Sheets - Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)

As you can see since Chavez was elected to office in 1999 he has made gains in some important areas. Long ways to go though.

Andrew

__________________
Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

From your links, it looks as though Chavez is performing very poorly indeed.



Notice that Venezuela's improvement in HDI over the measured timespan is much lower than any other on the graph. In 1975, Venezuela was actually slightly better off than Latin America and the Caribbean as a whole. Venezuelan growth in HDI then essentially parallels the regional figures from the mid 80s through 1992.

Then, Venezuela begins to lag behind the other nations in the region in their HDI score.

Notice that there is no change in the slope of the curve between Chavez's election in 1999 and the end of the graph in 2005.

It seems that Chavez hasn't really accomplished much at all, and under his leadership the gap between the HDI in Venezuela and the HDI in the rest of the region is widening.

Hmmmm.

Matt

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The trend is still upward. And when you are working with close to the poorest country in latin america, you cant expect to see huge improvements in short periods of time. Did you look at the other source which goes into details that the HDI graph does not? And you should note that the period of decline (with respect to latin america/Caribbean) is during the period of corrupt lending institutions debt and Washington backed corporate policies.

The data from the other graph shows improvements in the things i mentioned, and more.

Like i said repeatedly, nobody is claiming that Chavez has brought utopia to Venezuela. Plenty of people are trying to claim he is a dictator destroying Venezuela. He is clearly not a dictator, and the stats show he is not destroying the countries economy, they show improvements in areas of education, health, and GDP.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

No, no.

The gap is widening. Venezuela is slipping deeper and deeper below the rest of the region.

And the rate of growth is unchanged since Chavez's "revolution" - which indicates that he is not doing any better that the regime he replaced.

Under his leadership, Venezuela continues to fall behind the rest of the region.

Matt

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Venezuela is a troubled nation no doubt.

So what about the improvements noted in the other figures? Have you looked at them? The drop in infant mortality, the increase in education and literacy... the things i mentioned initially. Do you acknowledge the improvements in those areas?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

There are improvements in some areas - but those improvements are happening at a slower rate than in neighboring countries were hundreds of millions of dollars aren't being spent on one man's ego.

And in other areas (like unemployment, for instance), things remain unchanged.

In still other areas (like child immunizations), things are worse now that they were before Hugo came to power.

Ask yourself this, Andrew - what could that billion dollars Hugo wasted trying to buy a seat on the security council have done for the people of his country?

Matt

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