Go back and read the thread. You'll find the answer there. Now, try not to have one of those ideological mirages get in the way of actual comprehension. I know, it's an emotional thing common to you.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Ok - so we agree its not about being American, but that there may be elements in American culture that may make it more likely that some people will take the killing option more readily than find outher ways of resolving disputes?

Would you say that the incidence of violence/killing is spread evenly across the American population, or that there may be particular groups (eg subcultures, religious sects, racial groups, regions) which have a higher rate of homicide?

really Si Modo - you're getting boring. really boring.

There are plenty of potentially interesting discussions on this thread, and as someone who is well aware of the issues in immigrant Islamic communities I believe I have made quite relevant points, however you choose to ignore those and make this thread a 'poor me, everyone's calling me a bigot,' thread.

I didn't start out calling you a bigot, I started out with providing evidence that these killings are not, as you seem to think, part of Islam.

BTW - stoning does not by any means occur only in Iran - and in fact men are stoned as well - although there are differences in how this is carried out, The practice, IMO, is barbaric. And I think Islamic communities around the world should start addressing this, however that is a different topic.

I read yesterday about a woman in Washington who starved her four daughters to death - apparently they were 'possessed.' The 'possession' argument indicates an interpretation of religion is involved. I also wonder how this could occur in America - that four girls (the oldest was 17) could be starved to death, and the bodies remain in the home for months - without anyone being aware.

I wonder if you are as concerned about those four girls as you are about Muslim girls - and the suffering they must have gone through?

I won't reply to your posts anymore Si modo. I can understand that to be called a bigot is hard for you to take, because this clashes with your perception of yourself. It may be prudent however to think about why it is that I am not alone in this view. Are there really so many people here who have it wrong?

In any case, it is clear that you won't let go of this, and based on my previous contact with you on this forum I am well aware that you will carry any little axes you want to grind over into other threads.

I'm over it. You are on ignore.

No more boring than you slinging bigot when you are desperate. IMO, ignore reminds me of three famous monkeys. I guess it works for some. Or more applicable would be your ostrich approach.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I'm posting this in here, because I have been arguing that its not Islam that causes these killings, but other factors. In many cases, although 'religion' may be used to justify the killings, the cause actually is to do with the perpetrator's state of mind.

I have also stated that living in conflict zones (eg Palestine, Israel, Iraq) has resulted in increases in 'honour killings.'

This article is interesting in that context. We see a rise in homicides committed by Iraq War vets in the US. Based on some of the other information I have seen here, and elsewhere, it appears that many vets are not getting any (or the right) help for PTSD - and so it makes sense that we may see an increase in violent behaviours, including towards close family members etc.

Of course, its not known whether there is a link or not - the increase in homicides may be coincidence, and the article states there are issues around the methodology.

Still in view of the discussion, it does support my contention that we need to look beyond the religion if we are really to understand, and thereby prevent, this type of killing from occurring.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

And that simply isn't true:

http://www.ha.osd.mil/asd/downloads/...o-Congress.pdf

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Why don't you respond to Daisy's point or do you only condemn Muslims?

Does it somehow stick in your throat that all of humanity can commit atrocities regardless of race, colour, or creed?

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'They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards.' Private Eightball - Full Metal Jacket

The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Personally; I do not understand how the discussions pertain to the title of the thread?

Why call him names at all? Calling someone a 'bigot' is merely a classless way of conceding defeat or that one has no rational argument...

I think your position on diversity is quite off the mark; personally I would like you to move to Bankstown for a month and then come back. I would like to see what you think of diversity and tolerance at that point.

So you called him a bigot and then you put him on ignore because he is the one with the debating flaw of axe-grinding?

Check out the OP. Rather than have the topic go haphazardly everywhere and turn into another 80 page thread, discussing muslims who commit honor killings (alonge with sactioned stonings and pardons for men who commit honor killings) was the point of the thread I created, especially considering the fact that three honor killings my Muslims have occurred with the last two months.

But, if I feel the need for an editor, I will consider you.

Also, haven't you noticed? Daisy has me on ignore, so would there be a point? I simply don't like blatant inaccuracies, so commented on that.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

It's a typical tactic when one has no support for a claim. Say it long enough and loud enough and often enough and it MUST be true? *whine* Right?

However, my patience for her slander lasted longer. Of course, when one gets into a tizzy, patience goes out the window. Maybe she'll recover from her "vapors".

[edit] I'm a she.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Daisym,

I dont think you should waste anymore time on Si Modo,... your experience from your direct contact with different communities has given you more understanding and this has clearly shown in your posts.

You have come in direct contact with Muslims and am sure got to learn alot about their community and way of life.

Alot of people speak badly of Muslims having never met any Muslim in their entire life.

I wish to see people like Si Modo interract with Muslims for better understanding and awareness... because the Media and Islamophobic websites really blind the mind to the truth.

Daisym, keep it up. Good to see that your experience has taught u alot about different cultures and communities.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

I find your username quite the oxymoron. I bring the attention of three tragic deaths of young ladies and in all your "wisdom", the best you can do is call me a bigot - in this thread and the other one (where you looked quite ridiculous).

But, rest assured, oh wise one, when it happens again, I will post it again. Then we can count the minutes when you and Daisy will fling "bigot' at me and others because we said they were Muslim men.

Of the non-murderous Muslims I have had contact with in school and my job, I am well aware that not all Muslims are daughter/sister murderers. I also know that not all Muslims decapitate journalists' head, nor do all Muslims blow themselves up in pizza joints, cafes, buses, etc. I also know that all Muslims don't stone women, even when it is legal. And I know that not all Muslims hang homosexuals.

I do, however, know of one Muslim who has such anger at non-Muslims when they dare to point out these news items. I know this one Muslim has thin skin issues and the best they can do to avoid any reality is to whine "bigot".

Your posts in this thread and the other indicate that you, sir, are a bigot who should consider giving up caffeine althogether. It may help with that rage thing you have....then again, it may not, since you feel justifed in flinging around that moniker. That tells me all I need to know about the quality (or lack thereof) of your logic and character.

Of course, had you been the least bit astute, I would not have had to repeat myself to you so many times. Could it be that your anger has you so blind that you could not even notice that?

So, you and Daisy have a grand old time making each other feel good by flinging around the bigot word when all else fails. It is quite pathetic, but it will not deter me in any way from posting the next time a Muslim values his "honor" more than the life of his daughter or his sister. Nor will it stop me from commenting on the Muslims chose violence which caused a sportiing event to be cancelled for the first time in its history. And, the next time a terrorist Muslim decides to randomly blow up non-combatants going about their daily lives, I will post in that thread as well.

Then, we can do this all over again. What fun, because it is so much easier than to actually address the problem within your community. But your posts do a dandy job of re-enforcing the widely held believe that few Muslims actually or effective speak out about these atrocities about their community.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Of the "non-murderous Muslims" you have had contact with?? You make it sound as if 99% of Muslims are murderers Now its just getting silly.

Si Modo, seems like you are not at all worried about murders, honour killings, suicide bombings, stoning of women and hanging of homosexuals.... your post throught shows that you are not bothered at all.... your interest lies in sticking these crimes to ISLAM and MUSLIMS. Thats all, thats it,...thats where it ends with you.

If a bear farts in the middle of the jungle, I am 100% sure you will blame it on Islam and you will say that the bear is Muslim No i am not going to call you a bigot, its pretty clear what you are

And btw, Muslims dont need to voice their condemnation about crimes and terrorism to your highness. Who the **** are you so that you tell Muslims to speak out against atrocities. Muslims marched all over the world against global terrorism of all forms. I dont see you shedding a tear for all those innocent Iraqis that died at the hands of your government. I dont see you shedding a tear for the palestinian women and children dying every day.

Becareful, the Muslim boogeyman is going to get you tonight. Sleep with one eye open Paranoia has really damaged your sense of reasoning.

Anyway intelligent minds in this forum dont buy your propaganda against Muslims, and your hatred/islamophobic tendencies clearly show throughout your posts.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

I prefer sad. Your perceptions and generalizations make you seem like a.....bigot

Really? Maybe you can start the make up crap abbout Si modo thread. It should be fascinating seeing the generalizations and bogotry in that one and people tellling me about my life and who I am .

And that. my foolish poster just got you reported.

Yet is is so much easier for you to lash out at a poster than accept the fact that these three young ladies are dead becasue a Muslims killed them. Ponder that.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition