Dad appears to be wearing western clothes himself.

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Are you a spineless slave to political correctness?

What do you think I think of that?



Matt

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That slut!

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

[Emphasis mine] Yup, they would have, thus you haven't a point.

If anyone recalls Ruby Ridge and Waco, they will also recall many references to Christianity.

Move along. Brushing it off as "Islamophobia" is inadequate.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I'm still not exactly sure what Islam has to do with this, either.

Men kill women all the time, for a large variety of terrible reasons. Whether it be religious, sexism, robbery, rape, etc. I don't see the necessity in singling out a particular group (Muslim) to focus on, when their crimes aren't any more terrible than the other murders. Murder is murder is murder, whether it's done by a Muslim, a Jew, a blond, a white person, a kid, whatever.

Due to the rather large Muslim population in the US and the rather small occurrence of these 'honor killings', it's obviously not indicative of a widely accepted religious policy.

So, what's the reasoning? Would I get as much concern and reaction out of a thread detailing how blond haired men engage in terrible crimes against women?

I'm not attempting to downplay the awfulness of these crimes. I'm just saying I have a suspicion that when a single group of people are singled out for doing something terrible that lots of other groups do as well, it seems like there's an agenda at play....

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

The difference is, the reasons/motives for killing a woman AND the fact that the woman is often a family member. For these perversions, it most often happens with Muslims. That's the connection - motive and family as the victim.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Exactly!!

Straight away I knew that its another bash at Muslims and most of them dont understand Honour Killings. If you are from the UK you would be more knowledgeable about it since they are introducing laws and the media gave it alot of attention.

I already wrote about Women Rights in Islam in a number of posts, in comparison with how women were treated in the Dark Ages and Medieval Europe. There was a long program in British TV on Moorish Spain and what the Moors (Muslims of Andalusia) brought to Europe. The Muslim woman had the right to inherit property way before the European woman.

These are the rights of women that Islam protected and upheld:

1. The right and duty to obtain education.

2. The right to have their own independent property.

3. The right to work to earn money if they need it or want it.

4. Equality of reward for equal deeds.

5. The right to express their opinion and be heard.

6. The right to provisions from the husband for all her needs and more.

7. The right to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.

8. The right to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply can't stand him. (pls note that God deeply frowns upon divorce as a solution unless there is hardly any other alternative but it does not mean that men have more right to divorce their wives than women do.)

9. The right to keep all her own money (she is not responsible to maintain any relations).

10. The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.

11. custody of their children after divorce.

12. to refuse any marriage that does not please them

and more...


And when did the western woman get her rights? Infact till today she is still fighting for her rights. And the West continues to humiliates her and degrade her... it made a whole industry out of humiliating her (the porn industry) .... prositution is openly acceptable where as in Muslim countries the government pays her financial needs until she is able to support herself. The rapist is killed in Islam and the raped woman gets full protection of the law... in the west he gets a prison sentence. Also, see how the big corporations and businesses use and abuse women for monetary gains, every single advert must have a woman, semi nakid, holdin a product etc.

There are many examples, the film industry and how she has to sleep with 10,000 directors before she gets a role in a movie and in the movie she still has to sleep with a few actors. They call it art, friggin degrading. The fashion industry, jeez, the clothes seem to cover alot less these days... ah yeah... the designers all happen to be MEN. .. Yves Saint Lauran, Gucci, Paul Smith, Georgio Armani, Ralph Lauren, ... etc... and those poor models are killing themselves with anorexia to get a friggin job.

What about in the work place. Till today, women in the UK (I know this for a fact cos am from there) the women still fightin for the right to be paid the same as their male colleagues for doing the same jobs.

The islamophobic media concentrates on the tiny minority who indulge in corrupt cultural practices and call it Islam.

Islam came and gave the woman status and rights, it protects her honour and wrapped her with dignity and respect.

WS.

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"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom"- Malcom X

Okay, so are they more important than honor killings carried out by Hindus, Christians, Buddhists and others?

Obviously they're not. And I haven't seen any information to show that Muslims are more likely to carry this out than other groups (which they very well could, I don't know).

Before it was outlawed in 1991, over 800 women were killed by their husbands or fathers every year in Brazil (source). Brazil is obviously not a Muslim country. My point in bringing this up is that if we narrow our focus solely on Muslim Honor Killings, is that you'll completely miss all the other honor killings that go on around the world.

And they do occur. I just did a google news search for 'honor killings' and found mention of it happening among Christian communities in Africa, Buddhist communities in the UK and Hindu communities in the US.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Yup. And my cultural tolerance does not go that far. For the honor killings that happen in this hemisphere, I haven't heard many that are not by Muslims. And, if a fundie Hindu or a fundie Christian family did this here, I would fully expect to hear the press mention religion. And, I would fully expect NOW to address it rather than remain silent on it.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Yeps. Southern Italy Camorra country. Very religious but not Islamic. Hint, hint.

Feel free to deposit the 50$ with Crystal or OSB for my account.

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"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder

And as I continue to feel out my position on this topic...

How do people feel about the many majority Muslim countries that have laws pardoning husbands and fathers from murdering their wives and daughters in honor killings? It's certainly not a widely accepted practice, from what I understand, but countries do exempt people from punishment for this type of crime, which certainly doesn't do much to discourage it.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Another thing I do not get is that the same people that want to point out that this may have involved Islam and want to make sure that it is the focus is situations like this rather than treating it as just plain murder tend to be strongly opposed to the idea of hate crimes and argue that murder should be treated as murder regardless of motivations and that the thoughts, politics, beliefs, and bigotry should be left out of it. If a racist murder should be treated as any other murder then a religious murder should be treated as such. I do not see these same people starting threads on a regular basis every time a homosexual or person in a minority is killed. I saw a report recently about how hate crimes against Mexicans has gone way up since immigration has been focused on more in the last few years but that isn't really an issue that conservatives ever talk about. As somebody that lives in a college town with a pretty good number of Muslim college students that came to the U.S. to study I only wish that the local white Christian Fraternity and Sorority students behaved half as good as the Muslim students.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I feel disgusted by the possibly of a pardon based on this motive for murder. Disgusted.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Very good point, I hadn't thought of that. I guess there is a bit of hypocrisy in demanding that hate crimes be done away with, but then complaining when religious crimes aren't singled out.

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics

Yea, I figured you would.

I was more pointing it towards the people on the other side of the argument.

Honor killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
"Anyone that needs what they want, and doesn’t want what they need
I want nothing to do with
And to do what I want
And to do what I please
Is first on my to-do list"
-Gnarls Barkley, "Going On" lyrics