Careful, certain people will be blaming Hindufacists for their past and present foreign policy blunders.

When you turn on the news and see that some guy poured hot cooking oil on a 17 month old baby here in the USA, it's hard to judge whack jobs here and abroad based on anything. I think that they are a somewhat naturally occuring phenomenon. There was a woman in Dallas who hacked off her baby's arms, the stories never end.
That being siad, I think that Islamic countries have some pretty tough consequences for things that would be considered petty elsewhere.

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Are you a spineless slave to political correctness?

Here are two television broadcasts. Muslim men are advocaring the beating and possible killing of women who do not "obey" (subtitled) and iin the MSM in the ME.

Double Tap Blog » “With some women, nothing helps except beatings”

As it is in the MSM there, I might become a gambler and make some bets at how wide-spread it really is in that reagion.

However, in our part of the world, this is not the norm; there is no peer-pressere at all due to diversity of communities. Yet is still happening regardless of peer pressre to not do it.

I don't understand those who don't practice lent. Shall I kill a family member who eats beef on Friday because he has broken lent and shamed my famiky?

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Pouring hot cooking oil on a baby or cutting off the arms is petty?

Would honor killings by Muslims or the cultural motivation behind them even be considered of interest much less newsworthy by Americans if we hadn't been affected by retaliatory reactions to our government's past and present ME policies? I think not.

Yet another point to increase public hatred against Muslims in other countries to support rationalization of past and present US ME policies? Yes.

Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok i looked at yours seems a little slanted so i looked at this one too, it seems a messenger of god as Jesus is did many miraculous things it seems muhammads life was one frought with strife and war and the power of his word was in a dream that only he heard. I think the history of Jesus and the prophets before him that foretold of his glory, were also born out with his birth and life, the only miracle i see with mohammed was he as allowed to live even after his blasphemy.

I believe the period when people where killed for not being obedient Christians is called The Dark Ages. Islam has no monopoly on such behavior it just happens to have more of it going on in this time period.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I have worked with different community groups on issues of family violence.

On three occasions I have worked with Muslim groups preparing workshops on 'women and the law', dealing specifically with these issues.

There are cases of Muslim men who have serious problems. There are also cases of Muslim men, including sheikhs and imams, who work to promote awareness that these behaviours are not part of Islam.

For all your (and others) bellyaching about Islam and violence against women - all you are proving is that you don't know squat, and that you are in fact getting worked up over the issue because it is Muslims.

In my experience (which is obviously far more relevant to this topic than anyone here - including Wisdom seeker - who although a Muslim is unlikely to have worked in the field that I have - and specifically with immigrants to western countries) the main enforcers of 'cultural appropriateness' in families tend to be other women.

Young women who have complained about family attitudes on this issue have said mothers, rather than fathers, have been the ones who have banned them from seeing western friends, and insisted they wear hijab (usually using emotional blackmail rather than violence). In the majority of cases, fathers are far more accepting of their daughters gong 'mainstream'. Brothers, at times, can get heavy - but often this is in collusion with mothers.

Often, the best thing I could recommend to girls who were caught between cultures like this was to speak to the elders in their communities - because these people were more likely to be able to convince the parent of the need to be flexible.

Sometimes, where the girl did not feel confident herself, I would ask her permission to speak to a trusted elder.

BTW - not all cases I came across involved Muslims. Many involved other immigrant communities - many christian.

These cases outlined here are extreme. They are not the norm.

And honour killing is by no means unique to Islam - or middle eastern culture, as has been shown already.

As anyone in the UK knows - some of the most significant cases have involved sikh families.

Another thing - if you want to get your knickers in a twist over cultural attitudes to women - why aren't you getting all antsy about the sex selective abortions in India among middle class Hindus? Second daughters are very rare - with a future of a greater imbalance between the sexes than china currently has.

Attitudes to women in many cultures are far worse than they are in Islam.

THis does not mean Islam is perfect. No religion is. No culture is.

And violence against women is everywhere.

When was the last time that you looked at statistics on father-daughter murders in the US?

They may not be based on religion - but a lot of the time they will be about control - which is really what honour killings of daughters are about.

Naturally their culture and religious practices are tied.

Culture (from the Latin cultura stemming from colere, meaning "to cultivate"), generally refers to patterns of human activity and the symbolic structures that give such activity significance. ...

Culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices generally held by a human community, involving adherence to codified beliefs and rituals and study of ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. ...

Religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Incorrect. The 9/11 attacks caused the adverse reastion to Muslims by the vast majority of Americans. Of course, folks on the left coast were so far removed, they have convinced themselves that victims of the 9/11 attacks are "just being told by 'the man'" to have animosity toward Muslims.

Speakeasy provided a list if ME countries where pardons are available for these honor killings; there are predominantly Muslims in those countries.

Iranians stone women. There are several passages in the Koran that support this practice.

Good segues to another topic use connections between the previous topic with the new topic. Yours didn't, thus using the term "segue" in your change of topic to the Iraq War is at best, disjointed. Your petticoat is showing.

For the cases that have occurred by Muslims who live here, they have had ample opportunity to get acquainted with the American laws and ways, and the majority of them choose to remain here. If they can't accept it, they should go before they commit heinous murders of their daughter/sisters. Perhaps their daughters would still be alive and those Muslim men would not face capital murder.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Right. A very long time ago. For those Muslims who are here, the opportunity to do the right thing is everywhere, yet some still commit crimes such as this. If that part of their culture is so much a part of their life, they cannot possibly be happy here and should leave. I would if my culture was so deep that I could not restrain myself from the inevitable when my children are exposed to Americans for longer periods/day than their fathers.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them, speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

no, not really, I think the thrust of the original couple of posts was that NOW and other "concerned" advocacy grps. didn't make a peep...they certainly find their voices when its others...that’s the point I think..

as to the last several pages-

It certainly appears that many of these instances are being acted out among predominate numbers of a specific religion....and practiced in places/families/tribes/sects were in the rule of law is religiously driven....I am sorry if that sounds pejorative, but, it is the end a fact....

the Christian practices of the middle ages as partofme said...and again, in 15-17th centuries left a lot to be desired..the inquisition, witch burning etc....all while Islam was a great deal, well, lets say more enlightened in many ways....things apparently have swung the other way for both...
Islam had over a 100 schools of thought at one time, very many of these were, tolerant, enlightened and non violent...this started to change 100 years ago as these sects were not seen as militantly hostile enough for the “new practitioners” of Islamic ruling thought............

now I agree,100’s of millions don’t necessarily follow this more virulent school/form of Islam, but these sects, have found “homes” in every nation that has a large number of musilms and even among us in the west, ala England, Canada etc.....and unfortunately the average Muslim doesn’t appear very vocal regards these transgressions against their base faith.....

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile....

Who's "they" ? There are dozens of different cultures along the roughly 10,000 mile stretch that encompasses Islam.
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Morocco's in the ME too now ? It's getting crowded there. First Sudan was added, now Morocco. Or is ME a generic term for 'countries of whom I hate the people' ?

Surah 24 An_Nur says : That's not endorsement of honour killings. It's equal treatment of gender before the law more than a thousand years before that existed in the West.
The problem is patriarchical cultures, not Islam. Those exist everywhere, in the given contexts, to this day.

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"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder

A couple of articles discussing various incidents of honor killings amongst non-Muslims.

Solomonia Archive: Honor Killings come to the USA

Women: Violence: Honor Killing of Women in America and Abroad

Well, would you agree that Islam (like every other religion) is not a homogeneous mass, with some sub-groups being more fundamentalist, or extremist than the main?

It seems that where we see these so-called "honor killings" is among the more extremist subsets of several religions.

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Of course. It's massively diverse, possibly even more than Christianity (although establishing that would take a lot of work). And just as the extremists in Christianity do not set the norm for that, the extremists in Islam do not for that either.

Indeed, but it also exists in other contexts (already mentioned).

__________________
"Say not, 'When I have free time I shall study'; for you may perhaps never have any free time"
Hillel the Elder

You seem to forget that Islam is a younger religion. Most religions seem to moderate over time.

__________________
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"