Well endearing is not the word that came to mind, but you do certainly have some qualities. Some of them i actually enjoy.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

I figured it would be. I don't function in a logic-free environment.

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In case you were wondering, yes, there really ARE more idiots these days....technology has made natural selection obsolete.

Put simply I am saying that we need to get over using the term terrorist with all its implications.
We need to define what it is that the “war on terrorism” is about.
If it is for ultimate peace then we cannot dismiss Bin Laden and his mob as some kind of people who are beneath capacity for reasons and negotiation.
If it is for anything else then the war does not end, ever.

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

well first, whom and what does he represent? His own wishes, the wishes of whom exactly? He wanted the US out of Saudi Arabia etc....uhm, well he doesn't speak for the house of Saud.
Because he was able to put together a brilliant a plan and carry it to fruition, well so what? Is that the yardstick for viability?

The war ends when these folks reach their own enlightenment...they dislike the west and its “hold” on what exactly? Maybe they dislike the fact that their own governments keep them in a state of induced servitude.... but don’t have the sppt. to change it...sorry, but that’s not our issue.

The nations in the ME that sell us oil etc. are being recompensed...they have cut cards with the devil, that being the west etc., they are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination ....if they really hated us and wanted to see the world go into an upheaval, like shutting off the oil etc. and decide to stop selling etc. they know, exactly what to expect, they helped create this situation too.

If the western influences are a problem for him, then he can take it up with the governments that deal with us....I don’t see any massive protests in these Opec countries re: selling us what they have, for what we give them. If that influence is abhorrent to him well, that’s not our issue.

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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile....

I agree.

“Put simply given what his stated aims appear to be the U.S. would need to withdraw its influence from all Muslim nations. Given that some of them have no issue with U.S. presence as far as is discernable then those aims are unreasonable.”

From my post that “was all over the place”

I am “all over the place”?
What?

All of them? When are you supposing that may be?

That is our issue if we are fighting it. And the mentality that “it’s not our issue” is also our issue.


What?

I haven’t said any of his issues are valid or otherwise. You may find that the government of his country does not entertain dissent as well as yours may either. Probably the reason he had his ass marched out of it for “anti government activities”.

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An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents that were captured after the 2003 U.S. invasion has found no evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime had any operational links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaida terrorist network.

THE al Qaida wants to see US personnell and influence pushed out of the Muslim world, from what I've gathered. Admittedly, I haven't seen these precise objectives stated in a translation of Osama, but I've heard them repeated through citations and informed authors. And Osama certainly is dealing with the governments that have relations with the US - the Iraqi government, the Pakistani government, the Afghani government. Perhaps he wants to expand operations, but between the havoc caused in these three regions, it seems he's got his hands full already.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

yeah, sure, a peaceful resolution would be for him to drag his dead father out into the open at the end of a rope.

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"I admire Senator McCain greatly."
Howard Dean on McCain

"I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House."
Hillary Clinton on McCain

"I believe the right approach begins with the proposal put forward by…Senator McCain."
Barack Obama on McCain

"Higher taxes will only lead to poverty dependents."
sumyd

Bin Laden isn't the "head" of some vast international guerrilla network - he's merely a celebrity within it. Killing or capturing bin Laden wouldn't create anything of a 'peaceful resolution', though it would bring justice to the many victims of his crimes.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne

I've read the last two pages of posts, and must admit, that for all our brilliance, we're on the stupid team.

We fail to look at things from the point of view of others.

Muslims see their land as holy. Got it? We supported the Muslims in their fight against the Russians, financed Bin Laden. When the Russians left town, since we had claimed we were for the sovereignty of Muslims, we were supposed to leave. But we didn't. We had bases in Saudi Arabia and kept them through the Gulf War.

After the Gulf War, we were supposed to leave, but we didn't. Bin Laden insisted that we leave, but instead we cut him off and kept the bases there and imposed sanctions on Iraq and had our no-fly zones. It was after that that Bin Laden started the Al Qaeda network, which was meant to rid the Middle East of foreign occupiers.

Some people might say, well, Bin Laden only represents the interests of a disenfranchised fringe of extremists, but if you ask most muslims about the holy land and who belongs there, they will tell you point blank, it's not for the rest of us to be occupying.

Not all the people we kill over there are "terrorists". Especially in Iraq. Many of the people fighting us there were just regular citizens until we marched in.

Again, we fail to see things from the point of view of others. If a delegation of 150,000 Saudis were to come to your state, and in the middle of the night they knock your door down and point their guns at your family, what the fuck do you think you'd do? I bet we would do the same thing they're doing, which is: wait til the enemy offers to pay you for work, take the money, and then inform your fellow countrymen about the occupier and have them killed.

Violence begets violence, and we've been the supreme losers for too many years now. It's embarassing, already. Muslims didn't even know we existed until we started pissing all over them and insisting that it was just rain.

Ha ha ha, reminds me of that movie “When Mars Attacks” where the aliens are shouting “Stop, we want to be your friends” as there killing people…
He’s not allowed to make nice with infidels, remember…

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Only a liberal would know how hard it is to get a nicotine patch to stick to a monkey.

have to say this is the weakest shit you have ever tried to reply with....


civil war????? insurgents mass bombings???? Same same???

You do remember the the union and confederates were armies right??


had guns and shit wore uniforms???


did you pull a muscle coming up with this stretch of bullshit?

Your willingness to accept blame for your transgressions is admirable. What does it have to do with young Mr. bin Laden's proposal?

The goal and consequences are the same. Mass death is mass death no matter what means of violence are used to achieve it.

Why would i care?
Im sure they looked dashing. Again, who the fuck cares? Oh yeah, stupid people who think war is somehow more honorable if you are dressed for it....


Talking down to you hardly requires any effort at all.

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

as you usually do since you lack any backbone period....when confronted with your sorry arse rebuttals you once again try the condescension , soldiers are loser schtick

comparing two countries armies facing off and abunch of dudes who suicide bomb civilians is totally retarded......but that seems to be a theme in your reply since you didnt catch the uniform , weapons, cannon...Oranized military vs a insurgency of dudes who just come together once and awhile and kill civilians. and once agian that is what they do specifically target civlians and kill them at an alarming rate

In the end you back people who kill women and children daily to make a political point...yet condemn a nation who invaded a country basically a political point , who dont kill women and children intentionally

do you sleep well andrew?

I've had a different history lesson.

I've never come across any credible accounts of US supporting OBL at any point in time - the CIA certainly helped out the Afghani mujahideen against the Soviets, and they even helped print textbooks from the University of Nebraska that fostered militant Islam: [washingtonpost.com: From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad]. But Osama's al Qaida network is not the same as the Afghani guerrillas of the 80s, even if some of the latter joined and founded the former. If you have some evidence that bin Laden was supported by US funds, though, I'd be happy to see it.

Also, I've never heard of any substantial bases in Saudi Arabia prior the Gulf War. There was certainly a military presence in terms of equipment and expertise, but the bases came after the Gulf War to deter further Iraqi aggression and to maintain the no-fly zones. The bases were established with the support the royalty, too; I don't know what you mean by "we were supposed to leave." [Military to leave Saudi Arabia]. A lot of people definitely hated the US being there, including bin Laden, but al Qaida has its roots in the late 80s. OBL partly hated the idea that foreign troops were on holy grounds, and he partly hated the idea that the Saudi royalty chose American protection over his organization. OBL wasn't insisting that the US leave after the Gulf War, he wanted to prevent the US from ever setting up shop.

I understand your point, essentially, but all of the skewed info kind of dilutes it. Many people in the Middle East want American influence, equipment, and personnel out. A lot of people understand that, but it's not going to happen as long as this world stays unipolar. Hell, even when it was bipolar, the ME was still competed over. Whatever international order emerges next, it'll probably remain that way, unless perhaps oil becomes entirely useless.

__________________
No man is an island...
Each man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in Mankind.
And therefore, never send to know
For whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
—John Donne