It's pertinent to the topic and subsequent discussion of the thread.

Define Zionism. It means different things to different people. There's spiritual Zionism, political Zionism, militant Zionism and everything in between.

As for me, I don't really subscribe to any but again, being a "Zionist" is quite meaningless without the person expressing it actually defining it. It has become such a bastardized and loaded term.

And many more wouldn't. As with any group of people, you have your folks that would employ Stalinesque style tactics to stifle debate.

Of course, it wouldn't be fair. The two men are diametrically opposed ideologically. The fact that they were both born Jewish has no relevance.

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While the historical association between "socialism" and Jewry is an interesting topic I fail to see the importance of your being Jewish...

"A movement for the development and protection of a Jewish nation in Israel"

AskOxford: Zionism

You must not be a fan of the North American B'nai Brith groups if you prefer free debate.

Yet being "Jewish" was relevant to your argument? Well no matter, the fact that Abraham Foxman operates his two faced operation under the banner of Jewry promoting diversity for gentiles while promoting nationalism for Jews is quite relevant to the issue.

My being Jewish is unimportant except in direct correlation to the lead post whereas a Jewish Organization claims to speak in our name - hence, I think it relevant that I say they don't and that I'm Jewish.

That's all fine and well but not all Zionist have a goal of establishing or even preserving a Jewish Nation in Israel. I mean, if one were a religious Zionist - this could have different meanings as well. Some who call them orthodox say that it is the Jewish imperative to build a nation in Eretz Yisrael. Others, who equally claim orthodoxy think it heresy for Jews to establish a state without the will of G-d. Political Zionists wish to establish a homeland (or preserve it as is now the case) for a myriad of reasons as well. Some benign, some not so benign. Spiritual Zionists see the connection to the land in a spiritual sense but only in that sense - eschewing the establishment of the state (or its preservation).

This, of course, depends on the definition of nation - meaning is it a nation in the "state" sense or nation meaning group of people connected physically to the land but with no political ambitions to create a state.

So, really - depending on whom you are talking to, the term "Zionism" can mean different things with different aims and relations.


I am not fond of any organization that wishes to stifle debate. Though I might find some views abhorant, it is not my wish to squash free speech. Though, the reverse is equally true - if someone says something ridiculous, I have the right to call them out on it. Censorship is a tool of fascists - why would I, an anarchist, use such tools?


Ok, so Abe Foxman uses his Jewishness to advance his goals. While I despise his goals, he wouldn't be the first person to use their religion/ideology/ethnicity/culture to advance their goals.

Norman Finkelstein advances his from a humanist perspective - his being Jewish has very little to do with the noble causes he advances.

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Hopefully, the "anti-semitism" will not scare you off so you can stand up to such organisations in the future?

One is not much of a Zionist if one does not support preserving a Jewish nation in Israel..

Are you a religious man? I noticed your spelling of the word "G-d."

I would say censorship is a tool of communism as well; I know a bunch of Anti-Racist-Action boys who wave Soviet flags and terrorise anyone who adheres to a position that they do not like.

Agreed...

The boys at the ADL would agree with the fact that his views have little to do with his Jewishness...

If there had not been reasonable people like you, the world would now be uninhabitable. I don't believe in the word of "anti-Semitism," as I believe this was crafted by the same people who created and used Nazis as a tool to drive European Jews into the occupied lands.

I'm not easily scared.

That's what some Zionists think to be sure. Others ... not so much.

I'm not religious, though I am spiritual. I suppose it's a mix of tradition and habit to spell it that way.

Sure, statist communists use the very same methods that statists of all stripes to ensure ideological purity. In fact, the Soviet Union was a fascist enterprise every bit as much as Mussolini's Italy or Nazi Germany. The fusion of capital and the state, by whatever method preferred doesn't change this reality.

Concerning the ARA, again - with any group, you have your totalitarians.

I think we may agree on more than what we let on, of course, I realize I'm a newbie and you are "feeling" me out as it were. I think our discussion was mostly about semantics - but hopefully we both learned something, right?

The folks at the ADL are agenda driven to the point of blindness. If you aren't a staunch supporter of Israel, you're not a pure Jew - it's the Nuremberg Laws in reverse, if you ask me. They are dispicable and mirror the kinds of people that they claim to fight against.

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Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand. Thanks.

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Apparently, I have learned that you are not a "Jewish Supremacist," a "Zio-Fascist" or a radical Arab/gentile-hating "International Zionist" so you are not doing too badly from a first impression standpoint anyway...

Is that viewpoint prevalent here?

Edit to add: I hope that it isn't as well as that of Golden Brett's views ...

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Agreed here. And as for questions as to why you noted you were Jewish, I'd like to add that Brett Golden was levelling ad hominum attacks against all Jews. You, those websites, and indeed much more Jews (and non-Jew Israelis or others) than he may suspect don't follow his strawman stereotype at all. And your example invalidates his generalizations.

I know. I've had an interesting history with my views on Israel and the OT. As a teen I 100% supported Israel and thought Netanyahu was doing all the right things. Then I got a bit more informed and supported the Palestine position 100%. But I started thinking I may be forming my first racial/ethnic bias--that the Israeli government actions reflected the views of all Israelis, Jews in particular. Luckily I got more informed on that and see that there's a very wide variety of Israeli views from all ideological spectrums--as in any other situation.

Still think the Israeli government shoulders the most amount of responsiblity as they're more powerful, they're expansionist, and they have enormous backing in US. But I'd sure like them to have a protected and peaceful state alongside Palestine.

I'm new here too and trying to get a feel for the place. Glad to see your post!

"Billions" ?? It's trillions. 3 trillion in fact, since 1948, and that doesn't include wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; jew wars fought and financed by Americans in order to protect Israel and international jewish criminals. And it doesn't count the countless trillions ripped off by ordinary kike criminals, nor the hundreds of billions stolen from White gentiles by "The Holocaust Industry". (google it). And personally, I don't believe one word you said. And besides, one "good" kike don't mean shit to me.

"Possibly over the nigger" ?? LOL !!

But I'm a proud and confessed anti-semite. Which means I'm jew-wise. Facts about jews demand that all gentiles be anti-semites. For proof, see The Official Website of Representative David Duke, PhD, www.solargeneral.com, Conspiracy Pen Pal and Vanguard News Network

Glad to see yours, too.

I grew up thinking Israel was pretty much in the right - well, mostly. I did have critical parents that weren't blind supporters and I remember (especially my mother) being very critical of Israel (as well as the US). I grew up fairly liberal. But I did grow up not understanding why the Palestinians hated Israelis (my parents never identified with being Israeli). We are Jews of the diaspora - and we never had a wish to visit. I may someday if peace is achieved. Anyway, I'm off point. So in my early twenties (around the time of Netanyahu), I start to read more and more (I knew that the Palestinians had some beef ... just didn't know what the hell it was).

Now, my family has a saying - you are an Israeli supporter 100% ... until you are informed on the subject. The original sin is the state itself (this is my opinion). Does this mean I want the state gone? Well, I'm an anarchist! Of course, I do! (ok, half kidding ... )

I do realize that the occupation now is the biggest impediment to peace. We need to set aside Right Of Return for a moment and stop the bleeding. Stop the house demolitions, the killing, the check points, the settlements. Give the Palestinians a chance to build their state - pull the rug out from the extremists and give credibility to the moderates. This needs to be done with full genuinity. No continuing with the sham of Oslo - as the former Foreign Minister and participant in the agreement, Shlomo Ben-Ami, had said, that if he were Palestinian, he wouldn't have accepted the deal - and this is the leading negotiator on the Israeli side!

At this point - after awhile of disengagement and reconciliation - I think both peoples can choose their destiny and hammer out a deal regarding Right Of Return. Should they all vote (as equals) for a one state solution - or go a different route such as compensation instead of full repatriation. It's not up to us ... it's up to them.

I myself, am a supporter of Dr. Ilan Pappe who supports a binational state - I just think it's going to take quite some time to get there.

Of course, I can't impose my view on over 9 million people. They have to choose for themselves.

What can one little punk in the United States do?

Well, we can be informed. It all starts from there.

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Usually, I let the rabid little racists stew in their own venom, however, I'm going to make an exception in your case and respond. If you need to go brush that one tooth before reading this, I'll wait.

.....

Ok, now, if you can comprehend anything, comprehend this. Fuck you.

Got it? Good.

Now, I've read The Holocaust Industry, numbskull. Have you? I doubt it. I very much seriously doubt that Professor Norman Finkelstein is impressed that some white trash backwoods hillbilly is using his book to type rabid racist little screeds on an internet discussion board. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be impressed with being called a "Kike."

It's "Kyke," by the way. You can't even spell your personal attacks, you twat. That's pretty funny.

That's indeed funny. Can't even spell derogatory terms correctly. Does this make you look brilliant?

As for the "billions," I was referring to what we pay annually, you nudnick.


Classy.

Well, learn how to spell "Kike" [Kyke] and maybe people will stop laughing at you.

Classic racist ignorance. You all shoot yourselves in the foot every time. Now, go suck David Duke's cock and await his next orders like the blind follower that you really are.

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Not to worry. This forum is choked full of gullible, self-hating white gentiles who'll be worshipping you in no time, and just as slavishly as Judeo-Christians worship the dead-kike-on-a-stick.

But you're wasting your time here among the jewsmedia-programmed lemmings. Go to Vanguard News Network Forum and convert the jew-wise, why don cha ??

Kike-alike, you say you are responding in the same posting in which you don't. Now go back and respond to that which you said you'll respond to.

.....

Such a potty mouth for a "nice jewish boy".



Yep. Got a copy too, and I've circulated it widely. A brief about the book, from a gentile perspective can be read here: Controversial Jewish Professor Takes On 'Holocaust Industry'. Btw, isn't "white trash backwoods hillbilly" a racist term, in your judgment ??

Well, the way you spell God is "funny" too, but you mispell it just the same. Kikes have expunged the word "Kike" from English dictionaries. So, I'll continue to spell it correctly, rather than kike-alike.


The real classic racists are self-hating white gentiles who, in lemming, Orwellian compliance with jewsmedia programming, love all races except their own.

My, my. This jew just got here, and already he's advocating for faggotry. David Duke btw, is "G-d". And his classic kike expose book, "Jewish Supremacism" has already sold in over 700,000 copies, worldwide. Which can be ordered via The Official Website of Representative David Duke, PhD.





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