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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conine View Post
The problem, if you actually think one exists, is a large population of non english speakers and a portion of the population who don't value education drag down the average. Its not that their aren't smart Americans, its that the average is skewed.
Not so sure about that. Even our top students are falling behind the rest of the world.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008
Conine Conine is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Not so sure about that. Even our top students are falling behind the rest of the world.
What tests show this? The only tests i know that are taken by both Americans and Europeans are AP tests and Americans outperform Europeans on those, though they are testing for American universities so they are skewed.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008
Oreo Oreo is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Democrats are in the hot seat now. I remember how much they railed against the first Bush tax cuts. They didn't shut up about them for years.

Now, since they're in the hot seat, & we have a big election coming up, it's them that want to be the tax cutters, or should I say tax rebators.

I heard one funny analogy over this rebate: "It will be as helpful, as the Titanic sinking, & the federal government is coming in to offer swimming lessons."
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008
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hairballxavier hairballxavier is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

They simply cannot refuse it during an election season.

After the Bush tax-rate cuts took effect, the actual tax revenue skyrocketed. That indicated that the people were way overtaxed. Obviously the tax-rate cuts stimulated the economy.

And if Bush can't convince them to make the tax-rate cuts permanent, then a tax rebate could possibly help in the short term.

I think the best thing right now would be to cut the tax-rates and give tax rebates.
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Last edited by hairballxavier; 02-03-2008 at 10:00 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2008
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

I think permanent tax cuts would be better placed in health care related financial instruments.

Temporary tax cuts may be useful in specific industries that are capable of implementing technology improvements that can result in lower costs to the public and private sectors.

However, why is there any talk of cutting taxes, if we are running massive deficits? Even with eight years of supply side economics the current tax cuts have not managed to run the massive surpluses the democrats were able to amass in a similar eight year time span.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2008
Conine Conine is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I think permanent tax cuts would be better placed in health care related financial instruments.

Temporary tax cuts may be useful in specific industries that are capable of implementing technology improvements that can result in lower costs to the public and private sectors.

However, why is there any talk of cutting taxes, if we are running massive deficits? Even with eight years of supply side economics the current tax cuts have not managed to run the massive surpluses the democrats were able to amass in a similar eight year time span.
The time span is similar but not much else about it is.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
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hairballxavier hairballxavier is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Even with eight years of supply side economics the current tax cuts have not managed to run the massive surpluses the democrats were able to amass in a similar eight year time span.
What time span are you speaking of?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Two election cycles (presidential). A time span of eight years when the party of massive surpluses was not engaged in supply side economics.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
Conine Conine is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Two election cycles (presidential). A time span of eight years when the party of massive surpluses was not engaged in supply side economics.
Massive surpluses is equivalent to over taxation.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

I don't want to use such a simple analogy, because if that is the case, then massive deficits is also equivalent to under taxation.

From one perspective, massive surpluses can also mean capital accumulation and can be considered a form of wealth, as it does in the private sector.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
Conine Conine is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I don't want to use such a simple analogy, because if that is the case, then massive deficits is also equivalent to under taxation.

From one perspective, massive surpluses can also mean capital accumulation and can be considered a form of wealth, as it does in the private sector.
Yes, massive deficits are caused by under taxation. The problem is that the government shouldn't be run like a company. They shouldn't be making profits because they shouldn't be making money in the first place.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Why do you think the public sector should not be run (from an economic perspective) like a not-for-profit corporation?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conine View Post
Yes, massive deficits are caused by under taxation. The problem is that the government shouldn't be run like a company. They shouldn't be making profits because they shouldn't be making money in the first place.
But, at this point, we need a surplus to pay off the massive debt that the Republicans have gotten us into.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2008
Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

And McCain is going to vote for this shit, too.

The last stimulus package didn't do anything, and neither will this one.

And since there aren't any spending cuts, it's just another big-government welfare bailout to their huge lobbyists for the most part.

John McCain is really fucking boring to listen to and is on the wrong side of so many issues. He's going to get trounced in the general election. When Republicans do not coalesce wholeheartedly around one candidate, that spells trouble for the general election.

No one in gov't seems willing to want to cut anything. The debt will soar to about 10$ trillion even by the time Bush is out of office.

Where's the leadership?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2008
danielpalos danielpalos is offline
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Re: Stimulus package just another big government welfare program!

I think part of any stimulus could involve fewer restrictions on an HSA type of financial instrument.

Being able to accumulate health care capital, on a tax preferred basis, may encourage people to try to save more for their own health concerns.

In my opinion, being able to accumulate health care capital should be independent of any other requirements until disbursement of those funds for health care related purposes.

The health care industry may respond to any increase in demand by providing better products and services at lower costs.
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