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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but back in March 2005, gas prices here were right about $2.00 per gallon.

At that same time, in the UK, it converted to $5.79. per gallon.
CNN/Money: Global gas prices

Assuming the same proportional relationship, our $3.42 per gallon gas of today should cost close to $10 per gallon in London..... Over $11 per gallon in Amsterdam.

In the news, I saw them speaking about 5 pounds per gallon gas...at an exchange rate of about 2 American dollars per pound, that puts it right at $10.


So world gas price increases seem to be right in step with our domestic gas prices. I guess it feels a little better to know that we're all getting screwed.
Except that they get paid in pounds not dollars, so if a guy is making the same salary he was when the pound was a buck, he's doubled his pay in dollars.

A friend of mine talked with a real estate agent in the mountain region of New Hampshire last week, he said he's sold more vacation homes to British people this year than to Americans, apparently the British can hardly believe how cheap real estate has become in the US.

The pound and the Euro have doubled in the last 10 years.
So as oil went from $20/barrel to $114/barrel, for europe it went from 25 Euros to 57 Euros. So yeah, they pay more, but it doesn't seem as bad.
Add to that the high gas taxes that almost every petroleum importing nation charges, and gasoline hasn't even doubled for the european consumer.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

The weak dollar does contribute somewhat to the price of oil but not as much as the OP would have us believe. Sure the dollar is weak today but is it worth 5 times less than it was 15 years ago? I think not. Not to oversimply it too much but one of the major driving forces is speculation among commodity traders. They are driving the prices higher in anticipation of future supply and demand. (it's not based on last years numbers Americano) Old news doesn't drive commodity prices. Perception is reality in those markets. Liken it to the real estate speculation in California that has proven to be a disaster for homeowners and lenders. Is there an end in site? Probably but who knows when and how much worse it will get before the bottom falls out.

But these high oil prices only make alternatives more economically viable. You liberals should be rejoicing at Bush's feet (since you blame him for this) for making it possible for the new "high tech energy" jobs to become a reality.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
In London and Amsterdam (and most of Europe) you don't really need a car, though. Gas prices don't affect the average person as much there as they do here.
To say nothing regarding average MPG in European and US standard vehicles. Even US soccer moms are moving away from giant SUVs as US gas approaches $4/gallon. A friend ran a fairly new Ford Explorer in the local and Portland newspapers at below wholesale price and received zero calls. The Ford dealer, whom he knows on a personal basis, had offered him $4k below wholesale on trade against an almost new Toyo mini-van, telling him he has zero retail demand for big, used SUVs and that's what he could get at the auction. He's about ready to bite the bullet and let the dealer auction it before its value sinks even lower.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
To say nothing regarding average MPG in European and US standard vehicles. Even US soccer moms are moving away from giant SUVs as US gas approaches $4/gallon. A friend ran a fairly new Ford Explorer in the local and Portland newspapers at below wholesale price and received zero calls. The Ford dealer, whom he knows on a personal basis, had offered him $4k below wholesale on trade against an almost new Toyo mini-van, telling him he has zero retail demand for big, used SUVs and that's what he could get at the auction. He's about ready to bite the bullet and let the dealer auction it before its value sinks even lower.
A fair point.

Did see my first SMART on the road in the US yesterday. May be a new trend?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
The weak dollar does contribute somewhat to the price of oil but not as much as the OP would have us believe. Sure the dollar is weak today but is it worth 5 times less than it was 15 years ago? I think not. Not to oversimply it too much but one of the major driving forces is speculation among commodity traders. They are driving the prices higher in anticipation of future supply and demand. (it's not based on last years numbers Americano) Old news doesn't drive commodity prices. Perception is reality in those markets. Liken it to the real estate speculation in California that has proven to be a disaster for homeowners and lenders. Is there an end in site? Probably but who knows when and how much worse it will get before the bottom falls out.

But these high oil prices only make alternatives more economically viable. You liberals should be rejoicing at Bush's feet (since you blame him for this) for making it possible for the new "high tech energy" jobs to become a reality.
Dream on. Oil futures are a matter of months and there's currently plenty of supply.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
Except that they get paid in pounds not dollars, so if a guy is making the same salary he was when the pound was a buck, he's doubled his pay in dollars.
If they could buy American gas with British pounds this would make sense. Otherwise it is completely irrelevant. When was the Pound equal to a buck?

1993 1P = $1.50
2008 1P = $1.99

That's a 33% increase...not exactly doubled huh?

Historic Exchange Rates

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
A friend of mine talked with a real estate agent in the mountain region of New Hampshire last week, he said he's sold more vacation homes to British people this year than to Americans...
Suckers. Don't they know we are in a declining market here?

Quote:
apparently the British can hardly believe how cheap real estate has become in the US.
Have you checked real estate prices in London? When I moved from Chicago back to the land of cotton I couldn't believe how much house I could buy either. It's all relative. And I remember when the Japanese were buying up an "on sale" America also. How'd that work out for them?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Dream on. Oil futures are a matter of months and there's currently plenty of supply.
Ya think?

Quote:
Crude Oil Futures trade 30 consecutive months plus long-dated futures initially listed 36, 48, 60, 72, and 84 months prior to delivery. Additionally, trading can be executed at an average differential to the previous day’s settlement prices for periods of two to 30 consecutive months in a single transaction. These calendar strips are executed during open outcry trading hours. Options: 12 consecutive months, plus three long-dated options at 18, 24, and 36 months out on a June/December cycle.
Crude Oil Futures Prices - NYMEX
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
In London and Amsterdam (and most of Europe) you don't really need a car, though. Gas prices don't affect the average person as much there as they do here.
Really? I don't know about Amsterdam, but as far as driving habits, London seems very similar to a U.S. city.

I figure they're lamenting the gas hikes about as much as we are.
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Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Except that they get paid in pounds not dollars, so if a guy is making the same salary he was when the pound was a buck, he's doubled his pay in dollars.
Yeah, they may get paid in Euros or pounds, but if a guy made $80,000 dollars with his job in the U.S. and then he moved to London to get a job at the same level, he probably wouldn't make 80,000 pounds..... probably more like 40-50K pounds.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
Really? I don't know about Amsterdam, but as far as driving habits, London seems very similar to a U.S. city.

I figure they're lamenting the gas hikes about as much as we are.
Oh, there are many drivers, but most Londoners use mass transit.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
If they could buy American gas with British pounds this would make sense. Otherwise it is completely irrelevant. When was the Pound equal to a buck?

1993 1P = $1.50
2008 1P = $1.99

That's a 33% increase...not exactly doubled huh?

Historic Exchange Rates



Suckers. Don't they know we are in a declining market here?



Have you checked real estate prices in London? When I moved from Chicago back to the land of cotton I couldn't believe how much house I could buy either. It's all relative. And I remember when the Japanese were buying up an "on sale" America also. How'd that work out for them?
10 years ago the pound was $1.09, the euro was around .90 up from .79 a year earlier.

Actually vacation homes in the White mountains have held their value pretty well, there aren't a lot of for sale signs, and with foreign demand, the dollar prices are fairly steady, although to the foreigners everything is a lot cheaper than they remember from their last trip.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Oh, there are many drivers, but most Londoners use mass transit.
True..... and those that do drive, by and large, made the jump to VERY fuel efficient cars over a decade ago. Not many pickups and SUV's over there.

They are used to playing up the fuel economy of a car like we are used to playing up horsepower.... Totally different mentalities, but we are beginning to follow their example.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Either way, my stocks are up; it's all good...
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
True..... and those that do drive, by and large, made the jump to VERY fuel efficient cars over a decade ago. Not many pickups and SUV's over there.

They are used to playing up the fuel economy of a car like we are used to playing up horsepower.... Totally different mentalities, but we are beginning to follow their example.
I agree. I'm currently working with two guys from France and they can't believe how big the vehicles and engine sizes are over here. They said that the average engine size over there is 1.4 liters (not sure how that translates to US measurements) and most are smaller cars. Here we have a ton of SUVs and regular trucks thanks to all the mining in the area.

They also mentioned that instead of increasing the engine size over there, they are doing exactly what you said, working on the efficiency of their engines.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008
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Re: Oil hits $114/barrel - No end in sight.

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I agree. I'm currently working with two guys from France and they can't believe how big the vehicles and engine sizes are over here. They said that the average engine size over there is 1.4 liters (not sure how that translates to US measurements) and most are smaller cars. Here we have a ton of SUVs and regular trucks thanks to all the mining in the area.

They also mentioned that instead of increasing the engine size over there, they are doing exactly what you said, working on the efficiency of their engines.
We are already starting to diverge away from our old way of thinking in America, though.

My father used to be a big muscle car aficionado, but just this year, he bought a Prius....... For me, more than anything else, that exemplifies a realization that both we and our cars are going to need to be more practical in the coming years. Habits die hard though, so it will take a while before the landscape really changes on a wholesale level. But the trend is being forced on us more than anything else... the era of negligible gas prices is in the past.
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