I'm sorry but no offense to you..the figure is a conservative estimate made by the country's top economist who has a Nobel prize in economics. Doesn't matter if you don't accept it. He's still right.

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"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
~Thomas Jefferson

"There is Still No Such Thing As a Fair Tax"

Thank you for the jog there. Indeed most people never factor the inflation - inflation is the currency expansion which eventually results in higher prices - higher prices are the result of inflation of the currency. Too much currency after too few goods.

Other factors - over 4,000 American and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, the infrastructure destroyed, the anti-American sentiment that is rising around the world.

People are only fooling themselves if they believe all this is going to make America safer...

__________________
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
~Thomas Jefferson

"There is Still No Such Thing As a Fair Tax"

Want to bet whether or not VA expenses (which are outside the DoD budget) for Iraq veterans will be unknowingly cursed by some as more entitlement? Most aren't even aware VA funding isn't considered a defense cost nor do they calculate debt service for deficit spending on war as a defense cost.

Anyone who supports any form of taxation is for big government spending no matter what he or she says.

__________________
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
~Thomas Jefferson

"There is Still No Such Thing As a Fair Tax"

I read this yesterday:

When It Costs Too Much to Support the Troops

Excerpt:

There's a lot of big talk about honoring veterans, all the politicians talk big about their sacrifices yet this is how they treat those who risk their lives for national defense. What a shame - The VA is run worse than the DMV.

No money for veterans - but yes to build prisons in Afghanistan at taxpayer expense.

__________________
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
~Thomas Jefferson

"There is Still No Such Thing As a Fair Tax"

On one side are economists, backed by those in the nonpartisan CBO and not surprisingly favored by the White House, who believe the war will cost $1.7 trillion through 2017.

On the other side are economists, led by Nobel laureate and Clinton administration adviser Joseph Stiglitz, who calculate that the real figure is more like $3 trillion and that in some scenarios it could be considerably more.

So how do they come up with the 3 trillion dollar figure?

Stiglitz, co-author with Harvard economist Linda Bilmes of "The Three Trillion Dollar Conflict: The True Cost of the Iraq War," says projections below $2 trillion are not taking into account a number of collateral issues. One cost, known as “resetting” the U.S. military, for instance, will take a decade at least to sort out — replacing the huge amount of equipment and talent worn out or lost in the fighting.

Cost of Iraq war hinges on oil question - Stocks & economy - MSNBC.com

So, 1.7 trillion, or 3 trillion, either way it is a sickening amount of money.

While some people are willing to do anything to feel safer, it isn't real, it is an illusion.

Most of the hijackers were Saudi, their leader was Saudi, half of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi, yet it is claimed that Saudi Arabia is our ally. Yeah right.

Most experts believe that Osama, if he is still alive, is hiding in Pakistan, it is wlel known many new terrorists are being trained in Pakistan, yet Pakistan will not let us search for terrorists in their country. So, what do we do? Well of course we make Pakistan the recipient of the largest increase in foreign aid since 911 so we can make sure they are able to keep churning out more terrorists, so they can be used to scare pathetic, sniveling cowards into giving up more and more of their freedoms.

Sure is working well.

I disagree. This is just his opinion. It may be an educated opinion, but it is not a statement of fact. He created a definition of his own and then a number that fit that definition. I disagree with his definition.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

Obvisouly its more complex than the average citizen can understand. WHich is why we elect leaders to make those decisions. I cant pretend to have all the information that the President does.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

You need to present your analysis of costs to mount a disagreement.

It doesn't matter what you think, as I have zero respect for you, or your opinion. Anyone who would say............

"no cost is to much for my physical security. "

.........does not deserve liberty, or to be an American.....in my opinion.

And anyone who says that an American, any American, doesn't deserve liberty, or should not be allowed to be an American because of an opinion they have has no leg to stand on.

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

You have a right to your opinion. I stated mine, which is based on the principles the USA was founded upon.

Thomas Paine wrote in his essay, Dissertation on the First Principles of Government...........

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

Dissertations on First Principles of Government

Show me where a founding father said that those who hold opinions different from yours don't deserve to be Americans (and presumably should lose that status).

__________________
When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I never said that the poster should have their citizenship revoked. I said that the poster doesn't deserve freedom, or to be an American.

I'm sure some people would say that I do not deserve freedom, or liberty, because I haven't done enough to protect liberty. I have only been involved in one single protest in my life, so maybe I do not deserve liberty, or to be an American either.

Any American who place more importance on security than liberty, is not an American I want to be friends with. We have all seen the quote by Ben Franklin that is all over the web, regarding those who would trade liberty for security, but I can't verify that quote, so I do not use it. While I can't verify that quote, I still agree with the words.

The poster I was speaking to stated that no cost is too great for their physical security. Even though the cost is at least 1.7 trillion dollars, probably more by the end of our occupation. Even though Pakistan has received the largest increase in US foreign aid, but will not allow us to search their country for Osama or terrorist camps. Even though our alleged ally Saudi Arabia spawned the majority of the hijackers, is home to half of the suicide bombers in Iraq, teaches hatred for the US in their schools, allows no freedom of speech, treats their women like property and helps fund terrorism, we have taken no actions against Saudi Arabia. What cost is TOO MUCH?

The war on terror is a scam. Our border security is still a joke, yet we allegedly have a war on terror. Some people just don't get it. We feel safer because we have to get half undressed at airports, yet..........

A new study conducted by an aviation-security firm concludes federal efforts to safeguard airports, planes and the flying public have left the U.S. just as vulnerable to terrorism now as it was before September 11.

The white paper describing the study's findings, entitled, "Missing in Action – Aviation Security in America," was written by David Forbes, president of Colorado-based BoydForbes Security. It addresses what Forbes calls "persistent failings" in aviation security over the last three decades. He claims there are fundamental flaws in the system that have continued even in the wake of 9-11.

In the study, which took two years to complete, Forbes states: "Today we do not have anything resembling real security to protect the commercial aviation system and the traveling public. The sham pretence on stage now, and the implied direction for the future, is Oscar-winning material of the 'smoke and mirrors' variety."

Study: Airport safety no better since 9-11

AVIATION SECURITY
Vulnerabilities Exposed
Through Covert Testing of
TSA’s Passenger Screening
Process

GAO Report: Undercover GAO Investigation Exposes Vulnerabilities in Airport Security

So, what is more important to you?

Is security more important than liberty?

Are you willing to trade civil rights for the illusion of security?

Security doesn't exist. As long as the US has troops in over 100 countries, as long as we continue to back ruthless scumbags like in Saudi Arabia, people are going to hate us. They should hate us, because the US government has helped kill over a million innocent people in the last century. Of course few Americans care about the crimes of the US government. Few people care about our track record in Nicargua, or El Salvador, or Chile, or Indonesia.

In East Timor alone we helped Suharto kill over 100,000 people.

Have you ever seen this page from the National Security archive?

East Timor Revisited

Have you ever been to the National Security archive?

I doubt it.

If the war on terror was real, we should be invading Saudi Arabia, but we can't do that, it would piss off too many people. Instead we invade Afghanistan and Iraq, while allowing Pakistan to train new terrorists and Saudi Arabia to help fund them.

Some people will never flipping get it.

I'm not a founding father, but do feel any person who would trust elected officials using oppression through military and economic means to be the final word on the security of my country will be eventually disappointed when his/her civil rights are relinquished in that pursuit of oppression.