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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

And since the Republicans have successfully obstructed investigation, it's difficult to ascertain if there were crimes committed.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

you said they were fired before they could commit crimes, so what crimes where they asked to committ?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
please huh, can you answer the question.
How, exactly? I don't have a fucking telepathic link to Bill Clinton to find out why he decided to follow a well-established tradition, nor to GW Bush to find out why he followed the tradition.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
you said they were fired before they could commit crimes, so what crimes where they asked to committ?

To violate their oaths of office by not prosecuting those who had committed crimes, or to prosecute those who hadn't, only for political gain for the Party.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

first bush didn't follow the tradition and it was hardly a tradition you can go back and se how many were fired at the start of other admins...the number is fairly low, Clinton set a new bar.


Why does a potus, from the opposition party of his predecessor, ask for immediate for resignations, especially this many?
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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

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FA Hayek (interpretation)


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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
first bush didn't follow the tradition and it was hardly a tradition you can go back and se how many were fired at the start of other admins...the number is fairly low, Clinton set a new bar.


Why does a potus, from the opposition party of his predecessor, ask for immediate for resignations, especially this many?
Sigh.

Here's the official Bush press release where he follows the tradition:
#107: 03-14-01 WHITE HOUSE AND JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BEGIN U.S. ATTORNEY TRANSITION

Oops!

Reagan and Clinton both replaced 89 of the 93 US Attorneys within the first 2 years in office:

A history of replacing U.S. attorneys


Now, maybe you could spend a little more time talking about the facts and a little less time making stuff up?
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Sigh.

Here's the official Bush press release where he follows the tradition:
#107: 03-14-01 WHITE HOUSE AND JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BEGIN U.S. ATTORNEY TRANSITION

Oops!

Reagan and Clinton both replaced 89 of the 93 US Attorneys within the first 2 years in office:

A history of replacing U.S. attorneys


Now, maybe you could spend a little more time talking about the facts and a little less time making stuff up?
Everything I've read indicates that traditionally all the US Attorney's resign at the start of the administration. The new ones were submitted by Bush and appointed by the Senate. The difference is the DOJ turned around to dismiss some of the same ones that were appointed.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

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Originally Posted by biggyg2 View Post
Everything I've read indicates that traditionally all the US Attorney's resign at the start of the administration. The new ones were submitted by Bush and appointed by the Senate. The difference is the DOJ turned around to dismiss some of the same ones that were appointed.
Yup.

Notice how, when confronted with facts, the Bush apologists scatter like cockroaches.

The firing of US Attorneys by the same POTUS that appointed them is remarkably rare. The transition that occurs in a party switch is not.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Yup.

Notice how, when confronted with facts, the Bush apologists scatter like cockroaches.

The firing of US Attorneys by the same POTUS that appointed them is remarkably rare. The transition that occurs in a party switch is not.
However, and, I'm not being partisan...I don't even care if the Bush administration wins this or the AGs, TBH...but, I think it will be difficult to stand on this when there is no rule in place that says they cannot be fired by the one who put them in. It's by the pleasure.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
However, and, I'm not being partisan...I don't even care if the Bush administration wins this or the AGs, TBH...but, I think it will be difficult to stand on this when there is no rule in place that says they cannot be fired by the one who put them in. It's by the pleasure.
I see where you're coming from. However, like any other "at will" employment situation, while you can fire someone for no reason, you can't fire them for any reason. Like you can't fire someone (or not hire someone) because they're Jewish. The employment may be at will, but if the termination is demonstrably a result of the person's religious beliefs, there is an actionable position (and a pretty damn good lawsuit).

Same thing here. These guys weren't fired for no reason. They were fired for reasons that are illegal.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought you can't fire someone for political reasons.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
I see where you're coming from. However, like any other "at will" employment situation, while you can fire someone for no reason, you can't fire them for any reason. Like you can't fire someone (or not hire someone) because they're Jewish. The employment may be at will, but if the termination is demonstrably a result of the person's religious beliefs, there is an actionable position (and a pretty damn good lawsuit).

Same thing here. These guys weren't fired for no reason. They were fired for reasons that are illegal.
Flashback, I think you and I discussed this some time ago. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the actual case. I beleive an at-will position has more protections than an at-the-pleasure position. And, even though private sector employees do have more protection than gov't in this matter, Bush did pass the NoFEAR Act to give more protections than gov't employees had before. It may be interesting to see if the Act applies against the admin.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Flashback, I think you and I discussed this some time ago. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the actual case. I beleive an at-will position has more protections than an at-the-pleasure position. And, even though private sector employees do have more protection than gov't in this matter, Bush did pass the NoFEAR Act to give more protections than gov't employees had before. It may be interesting to see if the Act applies against the admin.
Yeah, we may have. Funny how some issues come back over and over, eh?





Imagine if we lived somewhere where we had to decide between amazing men and women who were true leaders, making good decisions, behaving with honesty and integrity. Imagine that place. I wonder if we (the impersonal we) would still be bitching at each other.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Yeah, we may have. Funny how some issues come back over and over, eh?





Imagine if we lived somewhere where we had to decide between amazing men and women who were true leaders, making good decisions, behaving with honesty and integrity. Imagine that place. I wonder if we (the impersonal we) would still be bitching at each other.
Would be nice, but I think human nature actually gets in the way of a utopia. Sigh.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Yeah. We are an imperfect species.

Fortunately, there's us liberals to balance out the less-perfect half!

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