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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Yeah. We are an imperfect species.

Fortunately, there's us liberals to balance out the less-perfect half!

And the righties to give you reality checks. A fair balance.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Reality is scary.

Let's go get ice cream instead. You can have 2 scoops if you're good.

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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Thanks. I'll go get some now, then hit the sack. 10PM and an early day tomorrow.
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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
Eric Bachrach Eric Bachrach is offline
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

lolz pram joo r so smart

I remember learning about some law in US history that said that government employees had to be hired based on merit, not politics. whatever happened to that
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

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Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Would be nice, but I think human nature actually gets in the way of a utopia. Sigh.
I think human nature compels us to destroy any kind of utopia there may be. As soon as things start to look good they muck it all up.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Bachrach View Post
lolz pram joo r so smart

I remember learning about some law in US history that said that government employees had to be hired based on merit, not politics. whatever happened to that
Nothing happened to it. The only thing is, "merit" is assessed by those who hire you. It's their call and if party toadying is of "merit" to them, they get in.

The same with firing them. In this case, if the president doesn't like the shine on their shoes, they're gone, period. Regardless of the true reason for such firings, "they didn't measure up to my expectations" (or something like that) will cover any ulterior motive for releasing them.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
Eric Bachrach Eric Bachrach is offline
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

ohh
well
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Yup, that group of attorneys who refused to resign were fired for political reasons.
No, those attorneys were fired because they were assholes.
They decided that 200 years of tradition didn't matter, they even claimed they were fired for political reasons, because they were pursuing cases against Democrats. But that's not how a political reason in defined in the statute.
Political reasons is defined as using their position to influence the outcome of an election. Such as when Karl Rove demanded that charges (baseless charges BTW) be brought against a Democrat right before a close election, to influence the outcome of that election, the attorney who refused to bring the charges was fired.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Bachrach View Post
lolz pram joo r so smart

I remember learning about some law in US history that said that government employees had to be hired based on merit, not politics. whatever happened to that
the Pendleton Civil Service Act, makes most federal positions merit based with hiring to be based on competitive exams.
Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hatch Act, federal employees cannot use their official capacity to influence the outcome of an election.
Hatch Act of 1939 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
the Pendleton Civil Service Act, makes most federal positions merit based with hiring to be based on competitive exams.
Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia....
Yup. That's for the competitive pool. It doesn't apply for appointed positions.

Quote:
.... The Hatch Act, federal employees cannot use their official capacity to influence the outcome of an election.
Hatch Act of 1939 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Very important act. However, the current investigation is not for this; it's for the firing. I suspect the current investigation has the ulterior motive to see if the Hatch Act was violated or if a cover-up of a violation occured. That's a prosecutorial fishing expedition and is inappropriate, according the the 4th Amemdment.
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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Yup.

Notice how, when confronted with facts, the Bush apologists scatter like cockroaches.

The firing of US Attorneys by the same POTUS that appointed them is remarkably rare. The transition that occurs in a party switch is not.

“scatter like cocker roaches”, sounds like something someone could take offense to humm? If I were a guy that took offense that easily...

(Oh and the letter is nice, so how many did he replace ?)

Onward-

so its rare, so we aren’t interested anymore in the why any of them get canned etc...as if that changes things? wow.... the revolving redefined benchmark, love it.

NOTHING has changed. The firing resignations etc. be it at the start of a dem term after a rep one or vis versa is the point. They are appointed according to political auspices, you know it I know.


They place their own appointees who will carry their message along their party lines and pursue interests responsive to the president/party and his view of “justice” is as what he sees as important and needing focus. Just because he appointed them doesn't mean he has any less a reason or right, either at the beginning or afterwards.


How many offices people places things are replaced, Hill wanted her folks n the travel office, so what? I never had issue with that, its how she went about it, but, to the winner goes the spoils. You know it, I know it, this is no different.


Clinton fired them for political reasons, Reagan fired them for political reasons...BUSH, fires them for political reasons and now just because HE appointed them, he’s evil and needs to be investigated though you cannot find an illegal act, you infer such absent evidence.....so please, when you apply one yard stick to one, then apply a different yard stick to another and attempt to redefine reasons for the same act from one admin to another to make hay...thats what I think any logical and reasoning person would label as- Partisanship......
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So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
“scatter like cocker roaches”, sounds like something someone could take offense to humm? If I were a guy that took offense that easily...

(Oh and the letter is nice, so how many did he replace ?)
If you'd bothered to look at my source, you'd see that it was 88 out of 93. So, one shy than Reagan and Clinton.

Quote:
Onward-

so its rare, so we aren’t interested anymore in the why any of them get canned etc...as if that changes things? wow.... the revolving redefined benchmark, love it.

NOTHING has changed. The firing resignations etc. be it at the start of a dem term after a rep one or vis versa is the point. They are appointed according to political auspices, you know it I know.


They place their own appointees who will carry their message along their party lines and pursue interests responsive to the president/party and his view of “justice” is as what he sees as important and needing focus. Just because he appointed them doesn't mean he has any less a reason or right, either at the beginning or afterwards.


How many offices people places things are replaced, Hill wanted her folks n the travel office, so what? I never had issue with that, its how she went about it, but, to the winner goes the spoils. You know it, I know it, this is no different.


Clinton fired them for political reasons, Reagan fired them for political reasons...BUSH, fires them for political reasons and now just because HE appointed them, he’s evil and needs to be investigated though you cannot find an illegal act, you infer such absent evidence.....so please, when you apply one yard stick to one, then apply a different yard stick to another and attempt to redefine reasons for the same act from one admin to another to make hay...thats what I think any logical and reasoning person would label as- Partisanship......
Once again you seem to be deliberately missing the point.

The firing of one's own appointees is very rare. It's done for cause - malfeasance, incompetence, etc. The Bush firings seem to have only been done for refusing to participate in acts that would interfere with an election. Hardly malfeasance or incompetence.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
If you'd bothered to look at my source, you'd see that it was 88 out of 93. So, one shy than Reagan and Clinton.



Once again you seem to be deliberately missing the point.

The firing of one's own appointees is very rare. It's done for cause - malfeasance, incompetence, etc. The Bush firings seem to have only been done for refusing to participate in acts that would interfere with an election. Hardly malfeasance or incompetence.
and once again you appear to have missed the point- its political...period. Big deal. changing what constitutes political appointments, firings based on partisan positions used by either admin. won't change the fact is a political practice and they all know it. Now you want to change the complexion of the debate by saying well yea, its political but its different politics..please.

You want to attach “more” blame for the same act(s) based on the same premise- politics.


and once again you alluded to an illegal act absent evidence of such.
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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

Sad when someone's partisanship occludes their ability to understand the truth.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008
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Re: Rove Served Subpoena

dude, tell me about it.. politics is no longer politics when it grants some one a hammer......funny how that works eh?
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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor
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