I wasn't defending Clinton. I was trying to defend the middle class American taxpayer.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

Care to provide a source for that number (there must be one, as you claim that as the data from the last time you "checked").

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

See this is where i take issue with you. Firstly like Matt said it is an enormous generalisation but i didn't reply immediately because i wanted to have a look round the board and had a look at the recent immigration issues that came up, one like this to with medical issues of deportees (or soon to be) and also to do with the Avena protocol being ratified as a part of the Vienna treaty.

Now while there were a couple of blowhard trolls who there in the usual flow of anti-Mexican crap and the usual jingoistic/xenophobic nonsense for the most part you know who it was that was arguing on behalf of the rights of immigrants? Americans. Not the Europeans on the board but Americans. And ironically its not too much to do with left or right, one of the very few things not to be. Me, Pram and O'sullivan all spoke very vocally about the rights of immigrants and Marcus gave a pretty impressive opinion (from the other side of the argument) on it too.

Sure, we had our fair share of Mexican bashing too (mainly from folks who jack all about immigration and international treaties/relations and can't manage more than one line or so in response, which even at that, has no substance) and our resident retard figured it was time to have a rant on the issue too but it was those of us who are Americans who spoke out in favor of the rights of immigrants, even for those who have committed very heinous crimes.

If you want i'll put in links to the threads and you can have a look for yourself, though if you've been following what goes on up top here for a while you may have seen it.

Also in refference to Matt, he was one of the very few (in fact it was only him me and Goober) who stood up for the DPW deal, while every other poster found their way to critising the deal for trading and leasing ports to Arabs. He even vocally deplored the Xenophobic attatitude after it was agreed there would be no permanent leasing by the DPW conglomerate.

I'll have to think back but when i worked in the INS detainer i may well have been on the wrong side of the law fighting for the detaiees to have consular access. I didn't realise that the Avena protocol was no longer to be followed after the fiasco with the Meddelin issue but i did actually fight for it tooth and nail and while it may still hve been on the books as U.S. federal law, it may well have been removed by then, but i still went out of my way to try and grant them access to their consulates nd embassies.

So don't paint everyone in with the same brush and lump us all into one catergory.

Hmm as i understand it his previous lawyer advised him to seek the greencard, which, in of itself is wrong, as you cannot apply for it within the country if already there on another migrant Visa! If you are to receive (unsolicited or if you don't apply) its a different matter, so if anything the money wasn't wisely spent in the first place. Also sometimes freedom house provides free legal advice and the detainer, as i understand it, in conjunction with other protocols and ratified ammendments to the Vienna treaty the detention facility must provide the detainee a list of possible pro bono attorneys/public defenders who may take their case. And unless that too has been takem off the books then he does have some hope there. And he must hve access to them (ones tht will accept reverse call charges).

What? Where did you pull that out of? You're a funny gal for the most part, but serously, sometimes leave the grown ups to discuss important issues.

So am i to take it that rambling that you believe that lawyers are just an "expensive" means to elluding the government?? Good god.

Well it may well be a waste of time to you to enforce the laws we have, but if we didn't, that would be a criminal offense if intentionally done to subvert the law with no good reason, which would lead to bigger investigations by Justice and a load of IG offices for relevant agencies and departments.

Now i assume the angle you're coming from is that you want more immigrants to stay and more coming and while that is another issue altogether (and not really one i care to get into for that matter either) having more folks coming over taking jobs away from likely lower and middle class American citizens (as we still have a far greater unskilled than skilled worker ratio coming as far as migrant visas go, employment based ones that is), which may well hurt the middle class in the long run. Again i don't really wanna get into that, and i don't neccessarily share that view either but just a point you may wanna consider.

I've had a look see what i can find and it is very complicated, i'll leave O'sullivan to comment on it.

(He surely has enough integrity/honesty for you Stapo. )

What the hell are you on? Where was anyone's integrity or honesty questioned? What a vivid imagination.

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I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

False. Workers on an H1B (which I'm assuming he had as an upgrade from his original F visa) may apply for a green card,

and if one is obtained within 6 years, they can stay legally.

Ultrasuper . Freedom House? Public defenders? To fight the government, you need a real lawyer, not some hack that graduated from ASU. A real lawyer is someone who works for a Top-100 lawfirm or is in private practice with several years experience winning difficult cases.

And that kind of a lawyer normally has a big price tag, unless they're working pro bono, which is rare.

If you don't have such a lawyer, then for all practical purposes, you have no rights.

Estimate of total legal fees for a set of real lawyers to fight an immigration case like this (assuming, of course, they're not working pro bono).

As if it isn't already obvious, the Constitution is beyond the reach of most Americans as very few can afford the entire BofR.

(Hell, with the number of Americans complaining about the price of fuel, most probably can't even afford one Amendment!)

I believe there are some liberals (i. e. grownups) here.

You didn't read what I said. I said that if one cannot afford a true lawyer in a case like this, then he/she has no choice but to seek illegal means of eluding the govt. And in fact, that's what 12 million Americans are already doing .

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

I didn't say that. I suggested that it's a waste of time and precious $$ to enforce laws when the specific violation is no big !@#$ing deal.

This is one such case.

It's everyone's responsibility to make him/herself marketable in the global economy. Job security w/an employer is a thing of the past, and it's time working class folks realized that. But instead of taking the initiative to better their employability, these working class stiffs rant and rave like spoiled brats blaming illegal immigrants (i. e. people who do take the initiative to better themselves) for their woes. It's because in the end, they'll lose--the labor market (i. e. supply and demand for foreign labor) trumps immigration enforcement--that's an inescapable fact.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

So you are saying not to enforce laws that we have on the book then?

Look that's your opinion, i don't really care to get into all that again.

Governments need to exercise discretion in deciding which cases to enforce the law.

Otherwise, you have Barney-Fife type prosecutors (i. e. Ken Starr) who will just bankrupt the public coffers.

__________________
Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

Oh, Solletica......

Still waiting for this.

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum