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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
historybuff's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
As you can see Obama has been working across the isle to bring us the change he's campaigning for.
Yeah, except for in the example he cited at Saddleback. He lied there. He went back on that bill and McCain blasted him for it at the time. And then he tries to give that as an example he's bipartisan? Does he think we're stupid?
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
Yeah, except for in the example he cited at Saddleback. He lied there. He went back on that bill and McCain blasted him for it at the time. And then he tries to give that as an example he's bipartisan? Does he think we're stupid?
Like McCain backing away from McCain-Feingold?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Tanngrisnir3's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
Like McCain backing away from McCain-Feingold?
Perhaps this might shed some light on McCain's, ahem, consistency:

* McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.

* McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

* McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

* McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

* McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

* McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

* He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

* McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

* McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

* McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

* He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

John McCain, the gosh-darned lipstickiest pig in DC
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
historybuff's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
Like McCain backing away from McCain-Feingold?
I'm pretty sure McCain didn't use that as an example in a public forum of his bipartisanship.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanngrisnir3 View Post
Perhaps this might shed some light on McCain's, ahem, consistency:

* McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.

* McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

* McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

* McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

* McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

* McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

* He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

* McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

* McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

* McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

* He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

John McCain, the gosh-darned lipstickiest pig in DC
Now that's the kind of change I can believe we'll get with John McCain.

John McCain, I change my mind, so you don't have to.
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
I'm pretty sure McCain didn't use that as an example in a public forum of his bipartisanship.
No, but it's often used as an example of him being a "maverick."

The John McCain, of 2000, is LONG GONE.
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
I'm pretty sure McCain didn't use that as an example in a public forum of his bipartisanship.
And sorry for my ignorance about that particular exchange, do you care to share specifics?
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
historybuff's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
And sorry for my ignorance about that particular exchange, do you care to share specifics?
During the Saddleback Ranch Forum, they were asked to give an example where they reached across the aisle. Obama referenced a bill he worked on with McCain and then withdrew his support on and voted on partisan lines, drawing fire from McCain at the time.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
President

 
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanngrisnir3 View Post
Perhaps this might shed some light on McCain's, ahem, consistency:

* McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it....
Now the oil situation is different. A lot can change in 26 years, but I bet you knew that.
Quote:
.... * McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea....
Ditto.
Quote:
.... * McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite....
With such an obfuscated and convolted situation that this has turned into, many are just fine with this position.
Quote:
.... * McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)....
So where's the flip?
Quote:
.... * McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t....
Source.
Quote:
.... * McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite....
As estate taxes have changed in the last 26 years, this seems reasonable.

As for the rest of your post, cutting and pasting from some blog seems quite disengenuous. Unless you did this research on your own, you really should give credit to the person who did the research in the first place.

I respect one who can change his views on issues over 26 years. I also respect one who can keep his fundamental principles on issues when the legislation and the situations change on those issues.

At least he has a position which we can tracks on votes. Unlike BHO who has a 36% not-voting record, JSM actually votes on issues and has recorded views.

Voting is a partisan game that can be played both ways, especially when two senators are in the running. This is why governors usually fare better against senators or reps. in presidential elections.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
During the Saddleback Ranch Forum, they were asked to give an example where they reached across the aisle. Obama referenced a bill he worked on with McCain and then withdrew his support on and voted on partisan lines, drawing fire from McCain at the time.
Yea I got that, can you provide specifics, like the bill in question?
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
historybuff's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
Yea I got that, can you provide specifics, like the bill in question?
Here's a link to a fact check article on the three top gaffes at Saddleback and it includes one of McCains, just so you know it's not biased.

FactCheck.org: Saddleback Bloopers
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Angry American's Avatar
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
Here's a link to a fact check article on the three top gaffes at Saddleback and it includes one of McCains, just so you know it's not biased.

FactCheck.org: Saddleback Bloopers
Thanks
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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008
Secretary of Defense

 
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry American View Post
No, but it's often used as an example of him being a "maverick."

The John McCain, of 2000, is LONG GONE.

Angry--You might want to consider what kind of change is voting for President Bush's energy plan, giving tax breaks & subsidies to large oil, & voting for the bridge to no-where? -Barack Obama & Joe Biden voted for these. John McCain voted against them.

Is this the kind of change you want? You obviously support the Obama ticket.

BTW--Former democrat presidential nominee John Kerry, sought out John McCain to be his V.P pick in 2004. (I would guess that John McCain, according to John Kerry really does not represent a 3rd term for President Bush.)
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Now the oil situation is different. A lot can change in 26 years, but I bet you knew that.
Ditto.
With such an obfuscated and convolted situation that this has turned into, many are just fine with this position.
So where's the flip?
Source.
As estate taxes have changed in the last 26 years, this seems reasonable.

As for the rest of your post, cutting and pasting from some blog seems quite disengenuous. Unless you did this research on your own, you really should give credit to the person who did the research in the first place.

I respect one who can change his views on issues over 26 years. I also respect one who can keep his fundamental principles on issues when the legislation and the situations change on those issues.

At least he has a position which we can tracks on votes. Unlike BHO who has a 36% not-voting record, JSM actually votes on issues and has recorded views.

Voting is a partisan game that can be played both ways, especially when two senators are in the running. This is why governors usually fare better against senators or reps. in presidential elections.
The gist of your defence here is that he took these first positions 26 years ago and had changed with the times since then, right?

But when he first joined the house? Im aware that the contradictions of McCains politics are alot more recent than 26 years ago.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: What change will Palin and McCain deliver?

Greetings and Felicitations,

I, personally, think the greatest changes are going to be to the election process. Evidently how pretty you are is very important on what kind of elected official your gonna be.

Quote:
They held home-made signs with slogans like "God, guns, lipstick" and "Read my lipstick - Palin."

A vendor had run out of badges with Mrs Palin's picture and the legend: "Coldest State, Hottest Governor."

One beaming woman wearing a "USA" baseball cap had scrawled a on a piece of cardboard: "A Real Woman = Governor, mom, CEO, pro-Life, God fearing, happy. GO SARAH!"
Obamania makes way for Palinmania - US Election 2008

Sincerely yours,
C. David Neely
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Humans, in general. act like bacteria in a petri dish. They eat resources and crap pollution without any true regard for the dish they live in until that dish becomes so polluted they can't survive. Eventually, if we don't change we will die.
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