In another thread, CorpMediaSux brought up the topic of JSM's voting against monies for veterans. It seemed rather off-topic in that thread, but still worth looking into, IMO, as I am pro-military, pro-defense, and pro-support for veterans. After looking at JSM's record on voting for monies for veterans' services and for the military, it appears that his record is not all that stellar on the surface. His record is not all that damning, either.

For a war hero (yes, in my book JSM is a war hero), I find the claim that JSM doesn't care for the troops or the veterans to be a silly claim.

But, when it comes to voting, his support is not as clear.

I have tried to find information on JSM's rationale for voting the way he has on some of these recent bills and amendments, but am finding little. I did find some information on why he voted against the recent GI bill legislation. He talked to the DoD, the DoD didn't support the bill the way it was, so he voted against it, thus supporting the military's wishes.

I also found this summary of his voting record: Obsidian Wings: McCain On Veterans' Benefits This person has done a lot of the voting record research legwork, so it's a good place to start.

If anyone has some ideas why JSM voted against some of this legislation, it would be great to learn the reasons. Perhaps there was pork on the bill, perhaps the military didn't want the bill the way it was, perhaps the VA didn't want the bill the way it was, or perhaps there is some other reason.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

Perhaps he's a Republican and votes this way on veterans issues because his party would rather keep corporate profits high than close loopholes in order to fund veterans benefits. This is what happens when a myth is repeated over and over again. McCain just has to say he's for the veterans enough and no one will challenge him on it. Like it's some kind of natural or biological fact. But his voting record, as you can see, is less than stellar. I wouldn't even say it's unclear. As for pork in those bills, you can actually see which Amendments were proposed on each individual bill if you look it up on the Senate roll call. In the links I posted in the other thread, McCain voted against two bills with no pork at all and one bill where the "pork" was funding for secondary education via No Child Left Behind. Why does McCain get the automatic benefit of the doubt. This is his voting record, plain as day.

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

Really? When you read through thoses lists of votes, that's not damning? What would it take?

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

Notice also, the other conservatives are dead SILENT on this thread. Is it because they know the truth and don't care? Pro-troop conservatives out there. What's the deal?

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

I think it's rather silly to rationalize JSM's voting record on veteran's affairs as something he does simply because he's a Republican. The implication that Republicans in general do not support vets or the military is a gratuitous negative generalization.

I have since seen that JSM takes the position that contracting organizations are much more efficient in getting claims processed than having the VA do it internally. That seems to be a rather consistent position of his as processing VA claims has been quite inefficient.

As far as addresssing my point about his voting record not being all that damning, he has voted in favor of having vets receive both disability and retirement concurrently. Before his vote, vets were required to forfeit disability pay when they became eligible for retirement. And, VA MDs historically have been poorly paid in comparison to their colleagues. JSM voted in favor of increasing their salaries so that the VA could be more competitive in recruitment of MDs.

Other than that, I am still looking into it as his vote against the $430 million increase in emergency benefits in fall of 2006 still makes little sense.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

dude its been on the forum for like 10 hours...and this is the first I saw it of it due to a bump, relax....

and I answered you almost immediately after you asked me in the other thread...cool your jets...

__________________
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I'm a veteran and I'm concerned about veterans issues, but the article referenced in the OP doesn't provide enough context on the particulars to make a decision one way or the other.

The most we can say about these votes at this point is that McCain isn't a rubber stamp, but we already knew that. I see no problem with these votes thus far.

__________________
Andy
Cynical Optimist

Are far as funding and how does what and who the money is allocated, I agree to an extent with si’s comment regards contract work as to the VA ..I have told my horror story before regards my issues with the VA etc. due to compensation owed me etc.

Add to that as I said, just because a bill is titled “funding for vets affairs”, doesn’t mean that’s all it contains, you can check at your leisure what each bill so named or addressing such has within here-

Project Vote Smart - Senator John Sidney McCain III - Voting Record

I counted 13 "Gi Bills" , bills so named, all of them passed, his NV are probably because he knew they would pass and didn’t make the trip. I didn’t see one NO vote, can someone be specific, on a particular bill or bills?

__________________
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

But isn't it backed up by their period of rule in Congress and the White House?
VA Faces $2.6 Billion Shortfall in Medical Care

An except from that article This link is to a pretty partisan lefty blog, but the guy has links and quotes for all his claims about the Chris Dodd Amendment, which seemed like a good idea and Republicans opposition to it because, again, it would roll back Bush tax cuts in capital gains. Investment banks over troops, yet again.
BobGeiger.com: Senate Republicans Screw Veterans Again

I'll keep searching but there is more out there.

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

Oh, come now, Corp. Your negative generalization of Republicans would mean that I am against the veterans and the military simply because I am a registered member of the GOP. If you keep defending this generalization, I should be offended.

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look, now.

And, to reiterate, I do want to get to the bottom of this, but I would rather this thread be based on fact-finding than turn into a partisan pissing contest. I know that's your goal, too, but I hope other participants will keep it at a fact-finding level, too.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

So what you are saying, in effect, is the Dems tried to use a veterans issue to roll back tax cuts. If the Republicans go for it, the Dems get taxes raised. If the Republicans don't go for it, the Dems can claim Republicans don't support veterans issues. A win/win for Democrats. I have more issue with Democrats using veterans issues as a political football than I do with any particular vote by John McCain.

This is the problem with Washington.

__________________
Andy
Cynical Optimist

Imp, I'd be happy to. Again, a progressive blog, but if you follow the links towards the end of the article it goes directly to the Senate website and gives you the roll call vote on three bills meant to expand veterans health benefits. On all three, John McCain voted no. You also can see the Amendments that were attached or were attempted to be attached to the bills. You can look it up yourself, but on one of the bills, Sen Nelson (Dem) got an Amendment attached that would have provided funds to No Child Left Behind, the Bush Admin's unfunded mandate to the state. The senate website has a list of all the amendments added to the bills and as you can see on one was Nelson's. On another was an Amendment to provide outpatient care for Veterans on the other no Amendments were approved. There's no pork here, and if there were it'd be IN the amendments. You can also read the text of the bills.

Think Progress » IAVA Director: If McCain Thinks The VA Isn’t Working, ‘It’s In Part Because He Hasn’t Funded It’
Please don't let the fact that it's a left leaning blog throw you off, the roll call votes are what they are. The bills are what they are. It's kind of open and shut.

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

Soo00 what are you claiming exactly? that a refusal to fund like VA or lets say schip is because what? Corp profits are being protected? I apy cap gains to you know, so do you, well maybe I don’t know your finical circumstance and it really doesn’t ‘t matter the argument is convoluted and dishonest. You can make that argument about anything from any party applied to any issue.....please.

Add to that as I said EVERY bill is packed with other ‘items’ and they, that is ALL of them use the bills name to garner sympathy etc. to what amounts to special interest grabs and yes, apportionments for prgms neither agrees with....thats how it works.

__________________
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.

H. L. Mencken


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

OK...I don't know exactly how to respond. Do you think veterans benefits should be paid for through deficit spending? Or be totally privatized and have the government out of it? If you think it should be totally privatized, then you're in opposition to every veterans advocacy group in the nation, be they on the left or the right. But if you think the government should provide veterans benefits how do you propose they are paid for? Deficit spending, as we've seen, devalues the value of the dollar and contributes to inflationary pressures that effect those on the bottom rung (including veterans who struggle economically) the most. How is it a "political football" if the Democrats are a: proposing a veterans benefits bill and b: proposing a way to pay for that legislation? How should Democrats approach the issue. Put through Amendments without funding? Not mention veterans at all and let the GOP handle it? What would be acceptable to you?

To be clear, when I indict the Republicans record on veterans affairs I am referring to Senate and Congressional Republicans who continually cut veterans benefits during their tenure as the majority in Congress. Not individual voters who, I believe, think Republicans support veterans because they campaign on the issue. But when it comes down to putting the money behind veterans support, they have consistently dropped the ball. It's one of the main reasons the partisan sniping over patriotism (which I don't want to see in this thread either) angers me so much. When it comes to their record, Republicans in Congress, including John McCain do not have a leg to stand on. But we've just decided they are the representatives of the military and veterans. I'm all for it.

__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

I think the main issue right now with McCain are the latest attempts to fully fund college (to the level of state school tuition).
McCain feels that giving people a choice between re-enlisting and attending college would reduce re-enlistment rates and hurt the war effort, so he is for reduced benefits, to make civilian life less attractive to service members trying to decide whether to re-enlist. The other aspect is how the cost of the Iraqi debacle appears, fully funding all the services that these veterans will need would reveal the true cost of the fiasco, which makes the GOP look stupid, better to hide the cost of the war, and pass the cost on to future taxpayers than reveal the real cost, which would make tax increases the only viable choice to avoid a fiscal meltdown of the government.
For people who value power and wealth over the welfare of the average citizen, McCain's choices perfectly reflect the powers he has chosen to serve.

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address