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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
Secretary of Defense

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
In a hyperpartisan political environment I like to look at all the facts. It's curious that this particular web page says:


And

But...

There are 57 comments total but not a single one until:



I smell a rat, but lets let this story develop further before we make judgments.

And to reiterate, these are statements from someone besides Palin. Let's see what others dig up.

This is very typical of what's going on. The main stream news media is picking up comments of an unknown liberal blogger, & over simple unproven comments from others--other than Sarah Palin & they are running with it.

In reality, these left wing nut cases & the media are "killing" the Obama campaign. This is not going over well with the American public. Attack after attack that are proven completely false & or without any merit.

You know the story, "if you cry wolf too many times" no one believes you when one actually appears.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
This is very typical of what's going on. The main stream news media is picking up comments of an unknown liberal blogger, & over simple unproven comments from others--other than Sarah Palin & they are running with it.

In reality, these left wing nut cases & the media are "killing" the Obama campaign. This is not going over well with the American public. Attack after attack that are proven completely false & or without any merit.

You know the story, "if you cry wolf too many times" no one believes you when one actually appears.
So is it true? Was it policy?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
In a hyperpartisan political environment I like to look at all the facts. It's curious that this particular web page says:


And

But...

There are 57 comments total but not a single one until:



I smell a rat, but lets let this story develop further before we make judgments.

And to reiterate, these are statements from someone besides Palin. Let's see what others dig up.
The Mat-Su Frontiersman is a local Alaska paper in Wasilla. This is the article is has on its site at issue:

: Knowles signs sexual assault bill

- Frontiersman

Here's the main page of the website where the article appears:

http://www.frontiersman.com/content/current/page1.pdf

Therefore, it's not coming from a mischievous blog but the actual website of an established longtime newspaper that wrote the article itself and now carries it on its website along with others.

Quote:
"Growing with Alaska's Mat-Su Valley since 1947."

The Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman is a local Alaska newspaper published every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday by Wick Communications and is distributed to the Matanuska-Susitna Valley. Our address is 5751 E. Mayflower Ct., Wasilla AK 99654. Our main phone number is 907-352-2250.
About Us : - Frontiersman

It's become very common for newspapers today to scan and put all their past articles online now from long before the Internet took place. Heck, I do it all the time for historical research and I love it. This site allows comments for any article by design. Nothing appears until now insofar as commentary because most likely nobody had any interest going back to old articles like that in that local paper except maybe some local AK person doing a school paper on rape in AK or whatnot.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Member Since: Apr 2006
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Uniform Crime Reports of Wasilla Police and Index from 1985 to 2005

Yes, rape occurs everywhere--small towns and big cities. And we have to take into account all the rapes that go unreported
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
andy764383's Avatar
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
Therefore, it's not coming from a mischievous blog but the actual website of an established longtime newspaper that wrote the article itself and now carries it on its website along with others.
Since I didn't say it was a blog I'm not sure what your point is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
About Us : - Frontiersman

It's become very common for newspapers today to scan and put all their past articles online now from long before the Internet took place. Heck, I do it all the time for historical research and I love it. This site allows comments for any article by design. Nothing appears until now insofar as commentary because most likely nobody had any interest going back to old articles like that in that local paper except maybe some local AK person doing a school paper on rape in AK or whatnot.
The front page is actually here:

Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman

But to directly address your point, where is the original pdf of that article? If they scan their newspaper to pdf, then where is it? See my point?

Nothing you say invalidates my point that in a hyperpartisan election cycle you have to be careful. The article may in fact be the genuine thing from 8 years ago but since Palin herself isn't quoted in it we can't draw any conclusions one way or the other, so it being a genuine article is still not really relevent.

I did a search of their archives for all of 2000 with "Palin" as the search term. Six hits total and nothing of relevence to this issue. Also, just to totally beat a dead horse, the article you linked in your OP has a number of errors a newspaper wouldn't allow. At least not while maintaining any professional credibility.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

With the MSM combing Alaska for dirt on Palin this past week, if this is all they can find she is in pretty good shape. Yeah it was a shitty law, but Palin did not write it or even support it. - She probably should have done something about it, but I'm sure being mayor is a busy job, and things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. It sucks, but its not the end of the world. I don't see this being a very big issue.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tautog View Post
With the MSM combing Alaska for dirt on Palin this past week, if this is all they can find she is in pretty good shape. Yeah it was a shitty law, but Palin did not write it or even support it. - She probably should have done something about it, but I'm sure being mayor is a busy job, and things like this are bound to slip through the cracks. It sucks, but its not the end of the world. I don't see this being a very big issue.
Oh, believe me, it's a huge issue. If this is true, Palin supported/allowed a law to pass that charged victims of rape for doing the investigations to find the perpetrators. Would you say the same if familes of murder victims were charged for the forensic work? Women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault and I can guarantee that this will infuriate American women. Hell, it's infuriating me, and I'm not even American.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Specifically on the (bolded) errors:


Quote:
ANCHORAGE - Gov. Tony Knowles recently signed legislation protecting victims of sexual assault from being billed for tests to collect evidence of the crime, but one local police chief said the new law will further burden taxpayers.



The governor signed House Bill 270, sponsored by Rep. Eric Croft, D-Anchorage, outside the Sexual Assault Response Team (SART) exam room at Alaska Regional Hospital. In attendance at the signing were members of victims advocate groups, law enforcement agencies and legislators.



The new law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency to bill victims or victims insurance companies for the costs of examinations that take place to collect evidence of a sexual assault or determine if a sexual assault did occur.



We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence, Knowles said. Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.



While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.



Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.



In the past weve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.



According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.



Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.



The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.



Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.



Palmer police chief Laren Zager said that to his knowledge, no sexual assault victim has ever been billed by the city of Palmer for an exam to collect evidence of a crime. Zager, who has been police chief since January, said he would never expect a victim to be burdened with the cost of a police investigation.



Im prepared to pay every dime in an investigation. As long as I am chief, I would never bill a victim, Zager said.



The new bill would also make law enforcement agencies that are investigating a sexual assault responsible for the costs of testing victims for sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception.



And no quotes around any statements at all.

This part also (at the bottom):

Back to Top



Back to News Stories


These are obviously meant to be links, but do not have any html code.

Do I need to go on?

Edit: And one more
Quote:
Best viewed in 4.0 or higherCopyright © #Thisyear# Wick Communications, Inc
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
Secretary of State

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
I don't see this being a very big issue.
It would be very interesting to see McCain surrogates saying this on TV. That's BAD P.R. If you think women are upset about lipstick on a pig. Saying an issue around rape is "not very big" will not play.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
President

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
Since I didn't say it was a blog I'm not sure what your point is.




The front page is actually here:

Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman

But to directly address your point, where is the original pdf of that article? If they scan their newspaper to pdf, then where is it? See my point?

Nothing you say invalidates my point that in a hyperpartisan election cycle you have to be careful. The article may in fact be the genuine thing from 8 years ago but since Palin herself isn't quoted in it we can't draw any conclusions one way or the other, so it being a genuine article is still not really relevent.

I did a search of their archives for all of 2000 with "Palin" as the search term. Six hits total and nothing of relevence to this issue. Also, just to totally beat a dead horse, the article you linked in your OP has a number of errors a newspaper wouldn't allow. At least not while maintaining any professional credibility.
No, Palin is not quoted in that article. However, the police chief, Fannon, is; and he states he is against the legislation by the state. Another town, Palmer, had the same policy and that police chief said that no victim has ever been charged and he would never allow any victim to be charged.
Quote:
Knowles signs sexual assault bill


Published on Monday, May 22, 2000 9:00 PM AKDT

JO C. GOODE / The Frontiersman / May 23, 2000


ANCHORAGE - Gov. Tony Knowles recently signed legislation protecting victims of sexual assault from being billed for tests to collect evidence of the crime, but one local police chief said the new law will further burden taxpayers.

The governor signed House Bill 270, sponsored by Rep. Eric Croft, D-Anchorage, outside the Sexual Assault Response Team (SART) exam room at Alaska Regional Hospital. In attendance at the signing were members of victims advocate groups, law enforcement agencies and legislators.

The new law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency to bill victims or victims insurance companies for the costs of examinations that take place to collect evidence of a sexual assault or determine if a sexual assault did occur.

We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence, Knowles said. Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.

In the past weve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.

According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.

Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.

The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.

Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.

Palmer police chief Laren Zager said that to his knowledge, no sexual assault victim has ever been billed by the city of Palmer for an exam to collect evidence of a crime. Zager, who has been police chief since January, said he would never expect a victim to be burdened with the cost of a police investigation.

Im prepared to pay every dime in an investigation. As long as I am chief, I would never bill a victim, Zager said.

The new bill would also make law enforcement agencies that are investigating a sexual assault responsible for the costs of testing victims for sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
Secretary of State

 
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Location: Illinois
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
In the past we've charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.
Oh I see, so if you're unlucky enough to be raped AND uninsured you get fit with the bill?

Quote:
The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.
Quote:
Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.
Think about that. This would occur AFTER a jury had decided guilty/not guilty. Frankly, in the case that there was an abortion of justice and someone guilty was able to get off I'd hate for the rape victim to then have to fit the bill after the humiliation of losing her case against her attacker. Sorry, rape kits should just be free...period.


Quote:
And no quotes around any statements at all.
Fox news often does this.
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
No, Palin is not quoted in that article. However, the police chief, Fannon, is; and he states he is against the legislation by the state. Another town, Palmer, had the same policy and that police chief said that no victim has ever been charged and he would never allow any victim to be charged.
Fannon isn't running for VP. Palin is.

If people want to make a big deal of this based on a poorly written article with assumptions based on what other people say, then feel free. I'm going to wait for more info.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

AP has picked it up.
The Associated Press: Palin's town billed rape victims to get evidence
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
Secretary of Defense

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hafke View Post
So is it true? Was it policy?

It's another smear campaign directed at Sarah Palin--based on "supposedly" a small town cop (someone named Fallon) who "supposedly" said something to whomever (no name of course)--whom then an unknown (no name again) left wing nut case blogger took & ran with.

NOTE: That Fannon rightfully suggests that the criminal should pay restitution to the victim. I guess in the liberal mind-set of these left wing nut case bloggers, the criminal who commits the violence on the woman really should not have to pay resititution to the victim for their crime. (They want the law abiding taxpayers of the township of Wasilla to pay for it.)

That's what this story is based upon. Of course the AP has picked it up. They are digging a hole so deep for themselves, & their annointed one, Barack Obama they will never be able to dig out. Tomorrow this will story will be blasted all over CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC & of course the MSN'S. Just watch.

Then the following day it will all be rebutted. Why? No credible source & or there were no rapes in Wasilla, Alaska during Sarah Palin being mayor of the township.

I understand that the DNC had sent 30 investigators & attorneys to Wasilla, Alaska when the news broke that Sarah Palin was McCains V.P pick. They have their pockets loaded with 20 dollar bills for anyone who will come up with a story. I imagine this is one of them.

NOTE: That no one has yet to come up with anyone that was raped in the township of Wasilla, or if so, the date of the rape. This too, like all the others is going to blow up in their faces.

Last edited by Oreo; 09-11-2008 at 08:33 PM.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Greetings and Felicitations,

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
Fannon isn't running for VP. Palin is.

If people want to make a big deal of this based on a poorly written article with assumptions based on what other people say, then feel free. I'm going to wait for more info.

You know what I wonder. I wonder at what point leaders stopped being responsible for the people who serve under them. Perhaps I was spoiled by Star Trek.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
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