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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
Secretary of State

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Oreo
It's another smear campaign directed at Sarah Palin--based on "supposedly" a small town cop (no name--of course) who "supposedly" said something to whomever (no name of course)--whom then an unknown (no name again) left wing nut case blogger took & ran with.

That's what this story is based upon. The fact is, we don't know if any portion of this story is true or not?
Too. Much. This post is the equivalent of putting your hands in your ears and yelling "lalalalala". The AP is a "leftwing bloggger" the local paper who ran this story EIGHT YEARS AGO, was hoping to torpedo Sarah Palin's political career. And they went so far as to fabricate the name of the chief of police (who btw has been mentioned in other stories about Palin in the media) AND they fabricated this policy? All to smear her? Dude....you're making some wild accusations here.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
O'Sullivan Bere's Avatar
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
Since I didn't say it was a blog I'm not sure what your point is.
I had construed your post that you might be expressing doubt whether the linked article is fictitious or somehow unreliable concerning its authenticity.

I'll take the rest a bit out of order . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
But to directly address your point, where is the original pdf of that article? If they scan their newspaper to pdf, then where is it? See my point? . . . I did a search of their archives for all of 2000 with "Palin" as the search term. Six hits total and nothing of relevence to this issue. Also, just to totally beat a dead horse, the article you linked in your OP has a number of errors a newspaper wouldn't allow. At least not while maintaining any professional credibility.
I'm the first to admit I know jack squat about website formatting. It's just on their website, and it's a real paper. The paper isn't writing anything declaring it's a bogus article or anything similar being said out there. The media is also relying upon it, which assumes they have verified it to be authentic given they are quoting from it and are still further investigating the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
. . . Nothing you say invalidates my point that in a hyperpartisan election cycle you have to be careful. The article may in fact be the genuine thing from 8 years ago but since Palin herself isn't quoted in it we can't draw any conclusions one way or the other, so it being a genuine article is still not really relevent. . . .
I differ.

Facts and inferences readily lead to acceptable conclusions. For example, if a guy is accused of stealing your spare TV and tools from your garage, and the man is caught walking down the street with the TV and tools in his hands, you don't know him, he doesn't know you, you say you didn't give permission to him to take it, etc, but the guy claims he just found it all on the sidewalk and picked it up, people are going to conclude guilt from that even though the guy denied he stole it.

Unless and until she can, if able, rebut it with genuine evidence to the contrary, I'm going to conclude she knew and approved. I already stated many of the facts and inferences drawn in my OP. Moreover, let's look at Palin's response to this from the USAToday article linked in the OP:

Quote:
. . . Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella said in an e-mail that the governor "does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test."

"Gov. Palin's position could not be more clear," she said. "To suggest otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation of her commitment to supporting victims and bringing violent criminals to justice."

Comella would not answer other questions, including when Palin learned of Wasilla's policy or whether she tried to change it. The campaign cited the governor's record on domestic violence, including increasing funding for shelters. . . .
That's a boilerplate denial, cloaked in self-serving puffery language, much like all defendants do when arrested and/or in court, even when they're guilty as sin.

The boilerplate denial is coming from Camella, Palin's spokesperson and authorised representative, but Palin is saying nothing herself and avoiding any further comment.

Palin's spokesperson refused to answer any questions beyond the boilerplate 'outrage' statement, including questions as to when Palin learned of Wasilla's policy or whether she tried to change it.

I draw an adverse inference against Palin on that. It is to be expected from Palin or her authorised spokesperson to answer such questions because any reasonable person would do so if the answers were acquitting to her, but she has refused to answer. Therefore, the proper conclusion is that she is refusing to answer them because answering the questions would betray her boilerplate denial.

Further, Palin's spokesperson instead cited to other irrelevant matters to the subject matter of the topic and questioning, which is a red herring diversionary/misdirection tactic.

Avoiding answers on the direct topic and seeking red herring diversions is a logical fallacy intended to misdirect and fool the recipient, and from that I also conclude Palin's denial is false.
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Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 09-11-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
O'Sullivan Bere's Avatar
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
. . . And they went so far as to fabricate the name of the chief of police (who btw has been mentioned in other stories about Palin in the media) . . .
Actually, about Fannon from the USAToday article:

Quote:
. . . Fannon, who is no longer police chief, could not be reached for comment Wednesday; his home phone number has been disconnected. . . .
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
I understand that the DNC had sent 30 investigators & attorneys to Wasilla, Alaska when the news broke that Sarah Palin was McCains V.P pick. They have their pockets loaded with 20 dollar bills for anyone who will come up with a story. I imagine this is one of them.
Source?
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
John Drake's Avatar
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
HA.HA.HA.--Just exactly how many rapes has the town of Wasilla had? I live in a small town of twice the size of Wasilla, about 15,000--for30 years, & no one has ever filed a charge of rape.

HELLO!--Wassila, Alaska, is not Chicago, D.C., LA or New York City! Rape, would not be top priority in this little town, because rape doesn't happen.

You know, you think you liberal bloggers would give up after a while. YES, let the media report is, so we can show again how biased & utterly ridiculous they are.

PLEASE KEEP IT UP!

"Well, how dare that little hussy get herself raped in our decent god fearing town. Just like those little liberal looseys, running around with those big breasts of hers. Well, she can have her big la de da investigation if she likes, but it's gonna cost her. "
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
"Well, how dare that little hussy get herself raped in our decent god fearing town. Just like those little liberal looseys, running around with those big breasts of hers. Well, she can have her big la de da investigation if she likes, but it's gonna cost her. "
Brilliant.

Seriously, though, this is draconian, this policy. What possible reason could there be to keep this policy in place when she was mayor? I can't comprehend it at all.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

For what it's worth, another take on this. Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com :: The Palin Rape Kit Myth
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuff View Post
For what it's worth, another take on this. Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com :: The Palin Rape Kit Myth
Thanks for that. It does give a bit of background on the names involved in this story: Knowles, Fallon, etc., so that's helpful. And it states, through Palin's spokesperson that Palin never believed that rape victims should pay. That's good, too (but I'd rather hear Palin say it). So, I'm still wondeing why it was a policy in Wasilla when she was mayor if that was not and is not her belief?

Quote:
....
Palin spokeswoman Maria Cornella told USA Today that Palin, “does not believe, nor has ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test.” “Gov. Palin’s position could not be more clear,” Cornella said. “To suggest otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation of her commitment to supporting victims and bringing violent criminals to justice.”

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s campaign advisers organized a conference call Tuesday with former Alaskan Governor Knowles and Ketchikan Mayor Bob Weinstein to do just that.

Knowles told reporters, “There was one town in Alaska that was charging victims for this, and that was Wasilla, and the -- the original police chief had been fired by Mayor Palin, and her replacement for that police chief was protesting it, and even when I signed the bill.”

Weinstein added, “Wasilla under Sarah Palin's administration chose to charge sexual assault victims for the forensic kits, and that's the choice they made. They easily could have made the other choice.”

Palin appointed Fannon as police chief in 1997. His predecessor was fired by Palin over his willingness to limit the town’s bar operating hours. Fannon was one of three candidates considered for the job and the City Council confirmed him in a 5-0 vote.

Palin later tangled with Fannon when he ran for Wasilla’s mayoral office during her gubernatorial race. Fannon created campaign ads containing a false endorsement from Palin. Palin did not support Fannon for mayor. She supported his rival, Curt Menard.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si modo View Post
Thanks for that. It does give a bit of background on the names involved in this story: Knowles, Fallon, etc., so that's helpful. And it states, through Palin's spokesperson that Palin never believed that rape victims should pay. That's good, too (but I'd rather hear Palin say it). So, I'm still wondeing why it was a policy in Wasilla when she was mayor if that was not and is not her belief?
What I also get from the bottom of your quote is that she was such a popular mayor that people were faking her endorsement to help them get elected.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
Secretary of State

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Can we all agree that townhall.com is a rightwing blog and thus will be engaging in all kinds of massive spin on this story. I might also add that OSB's previous post really responds to the statement by her spokesman:
1. Why didn't the spokesman say she knew or didn't know about the policy?
2. Why wouldn't her spokesman even ANSWER whether she had tried to overturn the policy.
Quote:
Palin appointed Fannon as police chief in 1997. His predecessor was fired by Palin over his willingness to limit the town’s bar operating hours. Fannon was one of three candidates considered for the job and the City Council confirmed him in a 5-0 vote.

Palin later tangled with Fannon when he ran for Wasilla’s mayoral office during her gubernatorial race. Fannon created campaign ads containing a false endorsement from Palin. Palin did not support Fannon for mayor. She supported his rival, Curt Menard.
There's an UGLY pattern developing. She's "family values." But she fired the police chief who wouldn't keep the bar hours open later, uh....what? And the guy who she does endorse, Fannon openly opposes the legislation paying for rape kits AND was accused of sexual harassment soon after taking the job. Gross.
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
Can we all agree that townhall.com is a rightwing blog and thus will be engaging in all kinds of massive spin on this story. I might also add that OSB's previous post really responds to the statement by her spokesman:
1. Why didn't the spokesman say she knew or didn't know about the policy?
2. Why wouldn't her spokesman even ANSWER whether she had tried to overturn the policy.

There's an UGLY pattern developing. She's "family values." But she fired the police chief who wouldn't keep the bar hours open later, uh....what? And the guy who she does endorse, Fannon openly opposes the legislation paying for rape kits AND was accused of sexual harassment soon after taking the job. Gross.
If you have the source for the information about Fannon's sexual harassment situation, that would be great. It's good to see all the information about this story.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
Secretary of State

 
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

After digging through things I've read recently, another police chief Palin hired, not Fallon had to resign after two weeks due to a sexual harassment charge in his past. Source.
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

The liberal biased media btw has not yet picked up this rape kit story. MSNBC, CNN, FOX all radio silent. Hmmmmm. Running against false media bias say what?
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but I didn't want to read thru what looked to be 5 pages of bickering and nitpicking semantics. The original articles and citations posted don't seem to differentiate between charging the victim, which I think we all can agree is not a good approach, and charging their insurance company if it will cover it. (To cynical me, it seemed to purposely Avoid the differentiation - If I've killed countless ants over the years and one sole butterfly that flew into my windshield, it's still an accurate statement to say I've "killed thousands of ants and butterflies," but it hardly leaves an accurate impression of my behavior.) Perhaps there are extenuating details I don't know about, but if the victim both has insurance that will cover the test(s) and agrees to seeking their payment, that strikes me as nothing but good fiscal stewardship for the town.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_inKarlate View Post
Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but I didn't want to read thru what looked to be 5 pages of bickering and nitpicking semantics. The original articles and citations posted don't seem to differentiate between charging the victim, which I think we all can agree is not a good approach, and charging their insurance company if it will cover it. (To cynical me, it seemed to purpose Avoid the differentiation - If I've killed countless ants over the years and one butterfly that flew into my windshield, it's still an accurate statement to say I've "killed thousands of ants and butterflies".) I don't know the details, but if the victim both has insurance that will cover the test(s) and agrees to seeking their payment, that strikes me as nothing but good fiscal stewardship for the town.
So if the family of a murder victim have insurance and agree to it, should they pay for the forensic work to find the murderer? That's just double taxation.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 09-12-2008
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Re: Charging rape victims--Palin/Obama/Biden/McCain

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
The liberal biased media btw has not yet picked up this rape kit story. MSNBC, CNN, FOX all radio silent. Hmmmmm. Running against false media bias say what?
Maybe because it's a story unsupported by facts? Hmm? Could that be the reason?
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