So the government has the right to decide if we can smoke or not? Sounds a lot like a governement we tried and tried to destroy only about 60 years ago. It's like he's trying to enstill a Socialist-Dictatorship, where everyone is equal, except they can't do anything on their own. Where do we draw the line? When they tell us when and where we can blow our noses? How about now? Shouldn't people have the right to put their own lives at risk? Why not outlaw alcohol? Hell, skydiving and mountain climbing, too? And you put yourself at risk everytime you drive a car, so banned as well?

On top of that, the taxes put on the sale of tobacco produce an insane ammount of money every year for the government, and in all honesty, it looks Obama is going to need that...

So, because it would be opposed by the other side it's better to be slipped in to something being promoted as "saving the nation." Sounds pretty sneaky to me. And sounds like betrayal of the American people to me. You want to pass legislature such as this, pass it in plain sight, let the general American people know exactly what your doing. Don't put ribbons and bows on it and hide it in a "stimulus package."




You sir, are ignorant. The slightest raise in taxes can, in essence take thousands, if not millions from most major American corporations. We're talking about multi-billion dollar corporations. 1% of a billion dollars is a prolific CEO, or about 20 floor workers. You don't think any tax raise will affect business, then you have no idea how the American business cycle works. If for nothing else, it gives them a reason to make cuts and expand their bottom line. Raising taxes, in any percentage, is crippling to the American economy, especially in a time of crisis such as now.

they both cost money and thats what this conversation is all about

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

The mainstream media likes him. That means he sucks.

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He was talking about a full withdraw in the summer of 2007... In the same clip you show that more recently he said that would not be the case. So what is your point again?

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TalkMankind - Controversial & intellectual discussion

I think you are totally confused. There was never any mention of forcing people to do anything. Please inform yourself.

As for the taxes, you are overstating the case again and you are fear mongering. It will absolutely positively not have the effect you mentioned.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that most of those 250K are small businesses and not Wall Street fat cats ?

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Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

Jesus loves you, allah wants you dead

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."

Ayn Rand

And that says it all.

An increase in taxes always slows the economy, but in a recession its negative impact is increased. Removing money from the private sector and giving it to Washington at a time when assets are falling in value across the board is not an example of economic policy - it is an example of left-wing ideology applied to the economy.

In addition to the direct negative impact, it sends a clear message to the world: the US is not addressing the recession with pragmatic policy but with anti-growth ideology.

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My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.

"Sir Galahad," by Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1834)

After analyzing all of the economic geniuses in the White House, and their new proposed policies, one might be drawn to a conclusion that someone ELSE is in charge. How could the White House make so many errors in judgment on accident? Impossible!

Hypocrites! And they know that the main stream media will cover them until it is all too late. Insanity.

Give him a chance! What? Until it's too late?

Think about how many FUNDAMENTAL NATIONAL CHANGES are taking place in a matter of 40 days. If you cannot see your freedom dying off, then I am afraid you are a bit blind in ideology.

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We need REAL accountability, NOW.

Stunning.

This is entirely false.

The reality is exactly the opposite of this.

Roosevelt pushed through enormous tax increases and smashed the fragile recovery of the mid 1930s with a battering ram.

The economy was sent spiraling downward into the second half of the depression.

GDP contracted by 5% in 1938 alone. The plunge began in the fall of 1937. That was eight years after the Great Depression started

Amd what "old formula" are you talking about?

The 1930s are the great historical example of the disastrous impact of tax increases in the middle of an economic downturn.

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My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.

"Sir Galahad," by Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1834)

They arent even giving it to washington. THey are take it from people who have the greatest impact on productivity (wealthy, businesses), and redistributing it to people to have the least (poor, unemployed). And in the middle a portion of it goes to buearocrats for admin costs.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

Here's the deal as I know it. A trillion dollars does not just fall out of the sky whenever Obama signs his name.

Now that the stimulus package is signed, our government has to decide how to fund it.

Four choices come to mind:

1. Print it and flirt with inflation

2. Tax it and negate the spending (Kinda defeats the purpose)

3. Sell treasurys to whomever can afford to buy them and (this is key) trusts that they will realize a return on investment, (that's our tax money that will have to be collected from us and our kids and our employers at some future date to pay off the treasury notes when they mature, so it's still tax, just not right now) Suppose we are in no better shape then to pay those taxes in the future then we are today, that's my concern if I am China.

4. Cut wastefull spending.

Obviously we'll do some of each of the first three. We'll push the envelope of inflation with as much seigniorage as we can get away with, tax whatever entities appear to have cash laying around (idle capital only as taxing away anything that is slated to fund new production would be counterproductive)yea right... and finally sell treasurys to China and Japan, but they have to believe we are going to be fiscally responsible (hence tonight's speech and the flip flop from January "now is no time to worry about the defecit" rhetoric) or they might not be interested in the risk. I'm not sure how much money they have to spend anyway both their economies are hurting now too.

The fourth option will get no play. We could cut wasteful spending. I'd drop the war on drugs before the war in Afghanistan. Hell, if pot and opium were legal, Afghanistan might become a good trading partner. Trading partners are friendly. So, as opposed to spending billions on the futile effort to stop mutually beneficial exchanges between consenting adults, we could tax the shit and make money. What do you suppose is the swing between the red ink and the green? According to Jeffery Miron a Harvard economist, roughly 80 Billion per year.

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Homo Homini Lupus? Its OK, I don't bite...hard.

Michelle Malkin Priceless video: “Bailout Prize Patrol” confronts AIG, Geithner, Sen. Snowe


This is a GREAT video It shows how insane this bailout and spending bonanza actually is...

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http://www.BHOCOUNTDOWN.com



Obama is a man who could deliver a snap judgment about a Boston police officer who arrested an "obstreperous" Harvard professor-friend, but would warn Americans against "jumping to conclusions" about a mass murderer at Fort Hood who shouted "Allahu Akbar."

Awesome video. Hilarious and true.

0:30 and 0:40 are priceless. A nice "before and after" reaction.

*Large crowd chants* CSA... CSA... CSA... CSA... Si se puede!

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We need REAL accountability, NOW.

And that's what it comes down to. The stimulus is just there to create make-work jobs to keep people busy. It gives people money for doing things no more important than sitting on their asses. You may as well just fucking give it to them. You realize that money is worth what you can buy with it, right? If you print it just to give it to people that create and do bullshit, then you are doing no more than giving people paper.I guess Obama better start funding alcohol cessation and fast food cessation. And while you're at it, explain how funding museums is going to help us out of this. Let me guess, it's going to pay people to do more bullshit?

well frankly as the most liberal senator, he just may have. I mean, you need more proof?

Well when he decides on whom is rich let me know....do I need to go though the litany? 500k then 250k then 200...now stimulus is held back from those above 70 and 140K ...so you tell me.

what tim said, you have it completely backwards....


yea the despression..you do realize that europe came our of theirs way ahead of us right? Wonder why?


its gonna take alot more than that, and I thought afghanistan was the "good" war? No? Oh I see....



Iraq was proclaimed an abject failure in 06 soooooooo




ahh yes and goverment knows how to run their show eh? Uhm hello Freddie fannie, social security, medciare.....?


you may wish to reside in France or sweden if you wish, I don't wish to, but since you're Canadian , oh only half the time, whatever, well, forgive me if I say no thx and you are welcome to migrate to either when the feeling moves you.

I have asked you, lets see3 times so far, to quantify that statement,
this is no. 4.......care to give it a go?

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"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."