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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
My guess would be at the fire station. Just a shot in the dark. You could also find a retired firefighter that has time on his hands. Maybe put an ad on Craigslist and wait for a response.

Seriously, are you just kidding around with everybody or being serious?

That makes no sense at all.
These were already the most experience firefighters at the station, who were taking the test.
The point was to become captain.
There is only one captain at each fire station, and they are supposed to be helping the selection process, not tutoring one of the applicants, in an obvious conflict of interests.
You are not going to be able to find a tutor for this test who can actually teach you how to be a better captain.

Why not just advertise the positions on eBay, and skip the test all together?
Just give the jobs out to the higherst bidder?
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
EricOKC's Avatar
Vice President
The one your parents warned you about

 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,891

Texas     United_States

Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
That makes no sense.
Yes it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
Where in a small city like this,
Small city? DUDE! It is New Haven, CT! There are about 600K people in the metro area. Thats a pretty good sized region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
are you going to find someone with advanced fire fighting skills and experience, who would be willing to tutor someone?
Gee, I don't know, maybe at the local university? Maybe you've heard of Yale?

Yeah - its in New Haven.

I'm absolutely positive one could find an informed tutor on ANY subject in New Haven, CT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
If you did, they would have to be one of those already in the job, who was supposed to be helping select the candidates, and would have a conflict of interest.
Again, you base this pile of bullshit on what exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
This is not a subject anyone else would know.
Really? So the New Haven, CT FD is the sole source of firefighting information?
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Wow.

Just... fucking wow.

I could find a firefighting tutor by reaching out my left arm and slapping my brother's arm (he's here on vacation). Before he left Long Island, he was the Asst. Chief of his local fire department. If someone was looking for someone to teach them advanced firefighting techniques, I'm sure he'd be happy to oblige them. A person could could certainly do worse when trying to find an instructor.

Maat, seriously, you're making yourself look stupid. You're saying things that aren't even arguably true. You're providing nothing to back up anything you're saying; you just keep spewing out idiocies.

Seriously, it was fun watching you make yourself look ignorant for a while but, really, it's gotten a little old...

And you don't find anything unethical about some people being able to buy a higher paying job, all because they could afford to hire your brother?
And your brother would still not know the proper procedures for these particular stations and equipment.

So far, I am the only one who has quoted any fact or sources, such as the court opinions or actual test contents.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,623

United_States     Ohio

Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
And you don't find anything unethical about some people being able to buy a higher paying job, all because they could afford to hire your brother?
And your brother would still not know the proper procedures for these particular stations and equipment.

So far, I am the only one who has quoted any fact or sources, such as the court opinions or actual test contents.

Have you seen the costs of graduate school?
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
You're kidding right? Besides, the one who DID, did so at his own expense to overcome a learning problem. This was not forbidden by the test standards and even though it is arguably a disability, he did not expect to be reimbursed by the department.

No it doesnt.

Again - are you fucking serious? The ONE guy who did it chose to do so in order to help himself and to increase his chances of passing the test. Wealthy? Did you miss the whole part about them being firefighters? Not exactly what you would call a billionaires club.

No, but they would gain much needed personal assistance to ensure they passed a test they were required to pass in order to be promoted.

Sigh - you completely have ignored the whole reason he DID hire one.

Nonsense.
He testified he spend over $1000, and 13 hours a day.
No normal person could do that.

And what makes you think a dyslexic would be able to do the job at all, much less as well as the other applicants?
These tests were for captain, which is not only well paid, but has multiple pension potential.
Here is what a quick search came up with for potention salary:
Quote:
up $250,000.00 or higher in the bigger cities such as LA,New York, ect. Most meduim size cities between $40,000.00 and $100,000.00 a year.
The whole point of needing to hire a tutor is why one should suspect he may have then not been capable of handing the job once he no longer had access to the tutor.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Steve's Avatar
President

 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 21,282

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
And you don't find anything unethical about some people being able to buy a higher paying job, all because they could afford to hire your brother?
They wouldn't be "buying" the job. They're paying for an education.

Clearly, you've never gone to college, because that's what college is, too.

If I want a promotion, I'll do whatever I need to do in order to gain the knowledge and experience to make me a viable candidate for the position. Anything less is negligence on my part...

Quote:
And your brother would still not know the proper procedures for these particular stations and equipment.
You miss my point. Unsurprising, but still.

My brother's been out of the firefighting game for more than a few years. My point was that there are a myriad of people out there just like him. In fact, people like my brother would never charge to impart that knowledge on a fellow firefighter. They would give it for free. Anyone who says they can't learn the requisite information, when it's so readil available, is full of shit. Firefighters like my brother wouldn't see it as a chance to earn a buck, they would see it as a chance to impart their knowledge on other fireman, and to advance the science of firefighting.

If someone didn't know the information contained in the test, it's not because they couldn't afford to learn it...

Quote:
So far, I am the only one who has quoted any fact or sources, such as the court opinions or actual test contents.
The only thing you've provided is proof that you're fucking clueless...
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,623

United_States     Ohio

Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
Nonsense.
He testified he spend over $1000, and 13 hours a day.
No normal person could do that.

And what makes you think a dyslexic would be able to do the job at all, much less as well as the other applicants?
These tests were for captain, which is not only well paid, but has multiple pension potential.
Here is what a quick search came up with for potention salary:


The whole point of needing to hire a tutor is why one should suspect he may have then not been capable of handing the job once he no longer had access to the tutor.
What are you talking about? Dyslexia is not a debilitating learning disability. You just mix up your letters sometimes. My boss has dyslexia and she is very intelligent (and she could be a firefighter).
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Yes it does.

Small city? DUDE! It is New Haven, CT! There are about 600K people in the metro area. Thats a pretty good sized region.


Gee, I don't know, maybe at the local university? Maybe you've heard of Yale?

Yeah - its in New Haven.

I'm absolutely positive one could find an informed tutor on ANY subject in New Haven, CT.

Again, you base this pile of bullshit on what exactly?

Really? So the New Haven, CT FD is the sole source of firefighting information?


And how many recently retired fire captains would be available to be hired as a tutor?

And one thing is for certain, that you could NEVER get any advanced firefighting information from a univeristy such as Yale.
They would only have theoretical information, not actual field experience.

The only sources of information would be from the provided material, and it should all have been freely and equally accessible.
Anyone having any advantage would invalidate the test.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
Have you seen the costs of graduate school?
Graduate school is entirely different, because it is always expensive to be able to obtain that level of additional education.
But that has nothing to do with field experience with actual station procedures, that can not be learned from a tutor.
If spending additional money actually made a person a better captain, then I would have nothing to complain about.
But clearly there is nothing to indicate that.
The tutors only seemed to be for passing this particular test, which does not seem to well reflect actual procedures.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
They wouldn't be "buying" the job. They're paying for an education.

Clearly, you've never gone to college, because that's what college is, too.

If I want a promotion, I'll do whatever I need to do in order to gain the knowledge and experience to make me a viable candidate for the position. Anything less is negligence on my part...

You miss my point. Unsurprising, but still.

My brother's been out of the firefighting game for more than a few years. My point was that there are a myriad of people out there just like him. In fact, people like my brother would never charge to impart that knowledge on a fellow firefighter. They would give it for free. Anyone who says they can't learn the requisite information, when it's so readil available, is full of shit. Firefighters like my brother wouldn't see it as a chance to earn a buck, they would see it as a chance to impart their knowledge on other fireman, and to advance the science of firefighting.

If someone didn't know the information contained in the test, it's not because they couldn't afford to learn it...

The only thing you've provided is proof that you're fucking clueless...

Clearly you have never gone to college, or else you would know that you can't take a course in advance firefighting operations of a local firestation.

Your brother would not know local procedures, and not typical or necessarily even possible to find.

The point was there was testimony that the test contained questions that were wrong, and in conflict with the free reading material and actual station procedures.
People who then got questions like this right, would not be better for the job.
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,014

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggidy View Post
What are you talking about? Dyslexia is not a debilitating learning disability. You just mix up your letters sometimes. My boss has dyslexia and she is very intelligent (and she could be a firefighter).

The test was NOT to become a firefighter, but to become a captain, who does lots of paperwork.
A person who tranposed letters could cause problems in this role.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Steve's Avatar
President

 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 21,282

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
Clearly you have never gone to college, or else you would know that you can't take a course in advance firefighting operations of a local firestation.
Atre you sure about that?

Think long and hard before you answer that question...

Quote:
Your brother would not know local procedures, and not typical or necessarily even possible to find.
What are some examples of "local" procedures? How would these differ from the procedures of other jurisdictions?

Examples would be appreciated (not to mention required), although I don't think you'll be able to provide any...
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Steve's Avatar
President

 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 21,282

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
The test was NOT to become a firefighter, but to become a captain, who does lots of paperwork.
He also fights fires.

Get a fucking clue, for God's sake...
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If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
AkDiesel's Avatar
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: USA-Alaska
Posts: 2,870

United_States     Alaska

Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

ALL TESTS need to go by-by.. no more tests for any thing...

No more government tests, school tests , job tests, medical tests for doc, nurse.... after all the tests are loaded with raciest questions in one form or another.

Would one like to be a Doc? just ask for a lic.. Would one like to be an Airline Pilot? just ask for the lic.. no test needed just ask and one can become one.
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,623

United_States     Ohio

Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
The test was NOT to become a firefighter, but to become a captain, who does lots of paperwork.
A person who tranposed letters could cause problems in this role.
She could be a captain, she does paperwork all day long.
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