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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
O'Sullivan Bere's Avatar
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddio View Post
Ad how is going about it's business as was defined well before there was even talk of an opening on the bench not doing just that ?
Courts are obliged to take into consideration any action that might lead members of the public to conclude there is or may have been impropriety in any action they take, whatever those circumstances may be. That's part of their business too.

Obviously, the court has the duty to render that decision. But it was not obliged to issue it right now instead only a couple months from now. Courts continue dockets and defer dispositions for good cause regularly, and certainly to prevent anything that might lead others to question the decision and the judges is good cause to do so. It is keenly aware of how that decision has become a political football in an impending confirmation process of someone seeking to join them on that very same court. They also knew the case would be ideologically split given they all review their opinions prior to publication, and it takes no brain surgeon to know that releasing it right before the confirmation process can lead people to question the motivations of the decision and the release by the conservative judges who formed the majority opinion. Given the court could have waited to release that decision for a couple months and chose not to do so, it creates a cloud for suspicion of motivations in the entire decision and release process that otherwise wouldn't have been there.
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Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 06-29-2009 at 02:00 PM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone357 View Post
The real issue here is that the Bell curve does exist and the left will not be happy until it is institutionalized out by making standards for Whites much higher than that of blacks or browns. They have already accomplished this in academia, but society has rightfully resisted this in jobs like firefighting and policing because these lighter standards for minorities will kill people.

That is silly because obviously minorites are just as good at firefighting as Whites.

These tests simply were not reflective of necessary firefighting techniques.
If you have read some of the complaints by those who actually took the test, you would know that.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
That is silly because obviously minorites are just as good at firefighting as Whites.

These tests simply were not reflective of necessary firefighting techniques.
If you have read some of the complaints by those who actually took the test, you would know that.
What personal experience do you have that leads you to state "These tests simply were not reflective of necessary firefighting techniques". Have you even been a line officer on a fire / rescue unit?

Your posts seem to indicate that your experience in this realm is limited to having once seen a fire truck go by.

Matt
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
daddio's Avatar
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
Courts are obliged to take into consideration any action that might lead members of the public to conclude there is or may have been impropriety in any action they take, whatever those circumstances may be. That's part of their business too.

Obviously, the court has the duty to render that decision. But it was not obliged to issue it right now instead only a couple months from now. Courts continue dockets and defer dispositions for good cause regularly, and certainly to prevent anything that might lead others to question the decision and the judges is good cause to do so. It is keenly aware of how that decision has become a political football in an impending confirmation process of someone seeking to join them on that very same court. They also knew the case would be ideologically split given they all review their opinions prior to publication, and it takes no brain surgeon to know that releasing it right before the confirmation process can lead people to question the motivations of the decision and the release by the conservative judges who formed the majority opinion. Given the court could have waited to release that decision for a couple months and chose not to do so, it creates a cloud for suspicion of motivations in the entire decision and release process that otherwise wouldn't have been there.


LIke it matters. Were they to postpone (after all the work already done on it) and she to get voted up, she should recuse herself and even if she didnt the vote does not change. Much ado about nothing.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddio View Post
LIke it matters. Were they to postpone (after all the work already done on it) and she to get voted up, she should recuse herself and even if she didnt the vote does not change. Much ado about nothing.
My point exactly insofar as how the result would have played out. But it could have avoided creating anyone out there looking at the decision and release suspiciously. Had it been issued afterwards with a 5-3 decision, then it simply would been chalked up as how the ball rolls with the opinions each justice had on the case without any questions about the propriety of making the decision and releasing it. It even would have gotten points for making it clear that the politics of her admission to the court had nothing to do with it, just plain old making a decision in good faith consistent with their duties.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

One thing I'm VERY curious about is how anyone could think a test is racially biased?

Either the races are equal in capability or they arent. Its really that simple.

If the losers on the test really had studied and worked just as hard, then why did they not pass? What was different about the test which was accessible ONLY to whites?

Even using the bullshit view that there were some materials unavailable at the fire station, was there some racial limitation preventing the others from obtaining them?
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
My point exactly insofar as how the result would have played out. But it could have avoided creating anyone out there looking at the decision and release suspiciously. Had it been issued afterwards with a 5-3 decision, then it simply would been chalked up as how the ball rolls with the opinions each justice had on the case without any questions about the propriety of making the decision and releasing it. It even would have gotten points for making it clear that the politics of her admission to the court had nothing to do with it, just plain old making a decision in good faith consistent with their duties.
Sounds like an awful lot of excuse making for institutionalizing racism via the judicial branch.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
One thing I'm VERY curious about is how anyone could think a test is racially biased?

Either the races are equal in capability or they arent. Its really that simple.

If the losers on the test really had studied and worked just as hard, then why did they not pass? What was different about the test which was accessible ONLY to whites?

Even using the bullshit view that there were some materials unavailable at the fire station, was there some racial limitation preventing the others from obtaining them?
Of course there wasn't.

Using the utopian idea of "diversity" is what this is really about.

It turns into a new form of racism is what happens.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
The SCOTUS was wrong again, and shows how it have been packed with bigots.

The test was blatantly unfair, because it was based on reading material that was not available at the fire stations.
Those who did well on the test had purchased their own books and hired tutuors.
That is essentially cheating, and would not make them better for these promotions.

They need to devise criteria that can not be bought like this test was.

This shows why Sotomayer and people like her are so important for the SCOTUS.
Right now there is no justice.

Yeah--sometimes you have to pursue your own resources to get ahead in this life. Like go to extreme measures of buying books--studying hard--forming study groups--time off--really means lots more studying.

Anyone wanting to take this examination for promotion would know that it's going to take a lot of work--& extra dedication--it's not going to come on a silver platter & then spoon fed to you.

If these firemen in question were able to purchase their own books, so then these same books were available to any other fireman wanting to purchase them. These books weren't on sale for Whites & Latino's only.

The US supremes just ruled--it is upon the individuals "achievement" that moves them ahead & not skin color.

Last edited by Oreo; 06-29-2009 at 02:45 PM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
President

 
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
The SCOTUS was wrong again, and shows how it have been packed with bigots.

The test was blatantly unfair, because it was based on reading material that was not available at the fire stations.
Those who did well on the test had purchased their own books and hired tutuors.
That is essentially cheating, and would not make them better for these promotions.

They need to devise criteria that can not be bought like this test was.

This shows why Sotomayer and people like her are so important for the SCOTUS.
Right now there is no justice.
Is this a joke? It's not fair because you can do better on the test if you actually invest in yourself? They should instead hire firefighters that are dumbasses who don't care to compete or improve themselves?

Also, if minorities are equal to white men, how exactly can a test have "disparate effects" on minorities? Is question #1 "do you hate niggers" or something? Followed by "are you a member of the master race?"
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
When you pay to go to law school, it is to learn about law and to become a better lawer or legal professional.
But this test was not based on what would make for the best to promote as firefighters.

An example brought up by one of the test takers was whether a fire truck was best parked facing up hill or down hill.
He did not know, because with the fire trucks they actually used, it did not make a difference.
Then wouldn't it follow that the whites wouldn't know, either?
Quote:
So the point is that the test was too arbitrary, and was based on specific anwers not available to the general takers, not based on logic, capability, skill, or experience.
But that has nothing to do with racial discrimination. In any case, tests should obviously be based on relevant knowledge. But the question is, how do you know they would never have to use such a fire truck where it did matter? And how does the test taker know it doesn't matter? Where does it say that? I can think of a number of reasons why it would matter which way you park it, all the way to easier entry into the vehicle.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,749

   
Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

After these white & latino men passed this very tough examination--it became political between a black church pastor & the mayor.

If it had been all black & latino men that had passed this examination--with no whites--WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
President
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
After these white & latino men passed this very tough examination--it became political between a black church pastor & the mayor.

If it had been all black & latino men that had passed this examination--with no whites--WE WOULD HAVE NEVER HEARD ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT.
An obvious truth that sucks for people who beleive in the ridiculous ideal that "diversity" has become.

They will of course deny this truth.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Trips View Post
Isn't it interesting how the left say's we're racist

While it is they that are truly racist
I've seen plenty of racial bigotry on both sides of the aisle. There is not a disproportional balance of bigotry between the right and the left.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009
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Re: Court rules for white firefighters over promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
These tests simply were not reflective of necessary firefighting techniques.
If you have read some of the complaints by those who actually took the test, you would know that.
Do you have a copy of the test?
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