It's not about a color blind society. It's about a society that is color blind to everybody except white males. Holding white males to a higher standard is being "color blind" in many peoples minds because they believe white males have the edge.

I don't agree with it, but from where I'm sitting that's what I see on a daily basis.


edit: Do you really think Sotomayer would have been in favor of the case if only the black firefighters passed and all of the white firefighters failed? I don't.

Do you believe the white firefighters would have tried to make a case out of it?

Dude - you're so off base with this and so out of touch with reality that you have become a caricature of yourself at this point.

Your posts started out almost funny but now they're kinda sad. I really just don't know how someone makes it through life being so incredibly utterly unaware of the world around him.

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No I can't prove that without knowing more about what was in the test exactly.
However, I know how badly these sorts of tests generally are, because they are not written by fire fighting experts, and because I have been taught how to do well on all tests like this.
I am able to and have passed many test like this on subjects I knew nothing about.
Adn the only information we do have, whether it was from one who did badly on the test or not, was that it contained bad questions.
The only example we have was the parking direction on the hill question, and it was a good reason to be suspicious of the test.
You have no basis for believing otherwise.

No one would or could normally hire a tutor in order to take a promotions test.
That would totally skew the results.
Only a wealthy person would or could do that.
And anyone hiring a tutor would not be any better qualified for the job then they were before they hired the tutor.
In fact, if they have to hire a turtor, they probably could not actually do the real job, where there are no tutors.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Plenty of people hire tutors to help them learn a subject. It's like having a teacher. Has a teacher ever taught you anything?

What does pay grade have to do with this?
Wealthy people often buy advantages for their family, like promotions, good jobs, etc.
There can be inheritance, multiple incomes, etc.
If wealth was not a factor, then how do you explain hiring tutors?
That should not even be allowed.

Again, this is an assumption that the white firefighters come from wealthy families. I know plenty of firefighters and not a single one of them are from wealthy backgrounds (Doctors and Lawyers are more common).

If anybody is being racist, it's you.

The pay grade matters because if they were making similar money then your "wealth" argument is pretty useless (I guess unless Bill Gates son was testing for it as well, lol).

I just wanted to point out, local libraries have as much information in them as Universities, you just have to know how to study.

Yes, and almost never is a test a good means of determining firefighthing skills, but usually that is the best we can do.
But when you have tutors, expensive additional material, etc., that invalidates the testing even more.
It makes it into a joke.
There is no way that reading purchased books and hiring tutors improved the applicant's firefighting skills.
If the books were really useful, they would have already been at the fire stations, and available to those who really needed them.
They would not be just to pass exams.

Tutors should not be allowed?

What about the student that needs help to pass a class? What if that student is of color? going to say to bad ?

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No, the Ginsburg dissent was based on many things, including the fact the plaintiffs had no standing because they had not yet really been denied anything yet.
The point was that there had been no resolution yet, and it was the suit that was trying to force one particulare solution, that was not required by law.
The plaintiffs were obligated to prove the test was a reasonable means of determining aptitude, and they did not.
The paintiffs were obligated to prove they they were being denied something that they were due, and they did not.
For example, the one who admitted dyslexia never addressed whether or not that disqualified him for the position.
Could a dyslexic person carry out the required duties as well as someone who wasn't?
I don't know enough about the jobs to tell, but those doing the hiring are not at all obligated to only take the test into account.
They can choose any critieria they think is importand, as long as it is not somthing proscribes, such as race.

Oh, great! Now all standardized tests are the same, apparently. Why? Because he told you it was a bad question? How do you know it was a bad question?Oh, I understand now! I can't prove it was a good test, so therefore it was a bad test!

That is silly.
You can hire a tutor to help with things like penmanship, basic math, English language, etc.
But no way are you going to be able to find a tutor for advanced firefighting information.
These were tutors who knew how to beat the system with written exams, and did not improve their ability to handle the job, one single bit.

I guess I must be a member of the super rich and not even know it. I've hired a tutor even when the test would not determine a promotion.Damn. I guess all those people who study and do well on tests are just morons who don't understand anything. And all the deadbeats who barely pass are the real geniuses!

You are nowhere close to on point with this. You can find somebody that will teach you anything out there if you're willing to pay them.

Wrong.
Many of the people who rise to management positions in any government field, are the result of privilege.
This is true of police and even garbage collection, as well as firefighting.
These are potentially highly paid, civil service jobs with security and pensions.
Doctors and lawyers are much harder positions to obtain, and can't be obtained by buying books or hiring tutors.

And again, I am NOT saying the test was racist, but that bigotry is involved.
The fact people are defending stupid tests and people who cheated, shows that.

And now, the pay grade question is silly.
You are not even taking into account the possibility of a second income in the family, not to mention hitting up parents for money.

And NO, local libraries are NOT going to advanced firefighting information available. This was not a rookie exam, but advanced. Not even universities would have had this information. It is narrow trade experience, that is hard to obtain, but should have been available to all firefighters.